God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

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suresh
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

Post by suresh »

Kumar wrote: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:47 am Wow! ! Great arguements, Jay! I learnt a lot today
Nice to see a post from you in this forum after a long time!
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

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jayakris wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:03 pm But the court doesn't show the decency that I show to them. When the matter is sub-judice, and right after they had heard the review petitions (but not given their verdict on them), just last week, justice Chandrachud of the 5-member bench went to a couple of legal conferecnes and gave speeches that pointed out the Sabarimala ruling as an achievement of 2018 by the SC that paves for women's equality. Shouldn't he know that he is required to be impartial at least till his own final word is given on the matter and when other judges are yet to vote? If he wanted this case to be used for social activism and even says it when it is still sub-judice, shouldn't he recuse himself?

We have nothing short of a breakdown of the basic principles of justice occurring right in front of our eyes, and we can't do anything about it.
Well, the coronavirus has robbed us of sports discussions, so let us re-engage in this.

Actually, Justice Chandrachud made the decision and that is a published decision. He and the court gave their arguments for the decision and he is publicly expanding on that.

Should he recuse himself? If you want that to be the case, then change the system. In many places, the person who makes the first decision and the person who takes up the appeal are different. In our system here (is that the same when the case is referred to the full Appellate Court in the U.S.?), all justices get to decide.

He has already decided. He is not neutral right now. He will not be. Those votes are known. The rest of the votes of the rest of the Supreme Court will be decided by the appeal. And, he can also change his opinion after hearing the arguments of the appeal. But, there is nothing wrong in him talking about the case that he has decided (and not the appeal that will happen). Those are different cases.

Again, if you want the separation and there is good reason to want that, then you have to change the system. Not ask for one judge to recuse himself in one case.

It is actually sad that the Kerala government has stopped women from visiting Sabarimala citing the appeal. The proper way to do it would be to file for an injunction and to see if the court decides to stay its order. Otherwise, we have a court order and now we have a state openly flouting that order perhaps because of political reasons. This is bad from a law and order perspective. You may like it now. But, tomorrow, when the positions flip and you support the court's order, you will not like this lawlessness.

We need a system of law and order that is based on principles and not on the political expediencies of the state government.
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

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Tamilnadu is just going ahead and completely revamping temples and their day to day activity. what gives the government right to regulate what religions allow and do not allow. Why should govt be allowed to run Hindu temples alone and still be considered secular?

And this is even done by BJP govt which is supposedly pro Hindu govt(which took over temples in Uttarkhand) ?

The excuse that trustees are corrupt is just lame! If needed, have a govt officer in every religious institution to oversee, but day today running of temples should be done by the people of same religion and govt should have zero say.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states ... 15316.html
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

Post by suresh »

@kumar Are you a Jaggi Vasudev follower? :D
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

Post by Kumar »

@Suresh, I have listened to some of his speeches many years back, but I don’t follow him.

Basically, states are using article 25 to foster their own agenda.
It further provides that this article shall not affect any existing law and shall not prevent the state from making any law relating to:

Regulation or restriction of any economic, financial, political, or any secular activity associated with religious practice.
Providing social welfare and reform.
Even considering that states are allowed this, in what world can they have a discriminatory law, Hindu Religious and charitable endowment act to administer places of worship of one religious denominations like TN and other states are doing?

A very detailed article,
http://www.legalservicesindia.com/artic ... Endowment-

Some of the very interesting judgements passed in the past.
In M Siddiq (D) Thr. Lrs v. Mahant Suresh Das Supreme Court held that the State has the sovereign or prerogative power to acquire the property. The state also has the power to acquire places of worship such as mosque, church, temple, etc and the acquisition of places of worship per se is not violative of Articles 25 and 26. However, the acquisition of place of worship which is significant and essential for the religion and if the extinction of such place breaches their (persons belonging to that religion) right to practice religion then the acquisition of such places cannot be permitted.


https://blog.ipleaders.in/right-to-free ... 25-28/amp/

It just appears that our constitution at least as interpreted by Supreme Court provides very little freedom in temples and states go all the way to regulate those temples based on politics using social justice platform.
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Re: God in trouble in God's own country... Sabarimala

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Very little freedom in temples? Most temples I have been to seem to be run privately based on whatever rules they create and are quite free. Of course, the law of the land applies to everything. Discrimination should not be allowed anywhere in the country in any public place. Having said that, the law should not be different for different religious places of different denominations, nor should we have different "codes" for people of different religions.
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