ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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jai_in_canada
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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

^^^ Well, it's been widely reported.

Dominic Thiem opens up about physical & motivational issues.

"He has been finding it increasingly difficult to battle a foot injury, yet it appears that his real struggle is a mental one right now."

"Dominic Thiem is struggling with pandemic related emptiness..."

.... but he seems to have come out of it now, thankfully.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

Thiem is through to the semifinal in Madrid, where he awaits the winner of the blockbuster QF between Nadal and Sasha Zverev.

The other half of the draw is much lighter, with Medvedev (2nd seed) losing to Cristian Garin at the last-16 stage. Garin (after losing to Sumit in Buenos Aires) won the tournament in Santiago (Chile) the following week, made the last-16 at the Monte Carlo Masters, and is now in the QF at Madrid. Doing enough to maintain his ranking (24).


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

Surprisingly easy 64 64 win for Sasha over Nadal...


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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The American decline continues. No American men in the Top 30 since computer rankings were introduced 50 years ago. Heck, Canada with 1/10th the population has 3 players in the Top 30 men.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/tennis ... li=AAggXBR

What might be the cause? Training facilities? Training know how? Lack of young good athletes choosing tennis?

Well, there was a Frenchman who ran Tennis Canada Academy until recently, when he decided to return to France. Under his watch came Raonic, Shapovslov, Auger-Alliadime and Andreescu (Canada's first singles grand slam champion). Sumit Nagal trained there for s few years.

American tennis is adrift and rudderless right now with no good leadership.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

Canada's tennis system has been based on nurturing foreign-born talent brilliantly. Started with Rudelski (who defected to Britain to further his prospects, using his Brit mom as the excuse), and then Pospisil, Raonic, Shapovalov, Auger-Alliasime.

In an earlier era, the US had Sampras and Agassi (born of Greek and Iranian immigrant parents). Perhaps the US isn't attracting enough immigrants any more!


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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That was Greg Rusedski I was talking about (not "Rudelski"!).


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

^^^ Raonic and Shapovalov were born outside Canada. Auger-Alliasime, Andreescu, Pospisil, Rusedski and Andreescu are Canada born. Still all of them children of immigrants - with very little family history in sports. If my tennis club is any indication, the junior programs are all full of kids of European and South American immigrants. Very few children of Indian, Chinese, Caribbean, Middle Eastern, and African parentage.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by PKBasu »

The one truly Canada born and bred tennis player was Montreal-born Eugenie Bouchard. In 2014, she made the Wimbledon final, and the SF at the AO and FO. She did make R4 at that year's USO too, but making the Wimbledon final (and the celebrity that accompanied it) basically killed off her tennis career, I think. Besides, being rather physically attractive, she had other distractions (like Anna Kournikova before her).

I remember there was another Pole called Aleksandra Wozniak (not Wozniacki, who represented Denmark) who shone for a few years for Canada, then faded. The other one from an earlier era was Carling Bassett, who was properly Canada-born, but didn't quite live up to her early potential.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by suresh »

Eugenie Bouchard -- what a wasted talent.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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PKBasu wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:16 pm The one truly Canada born and bred tennis player was Montreal-born Eugenie Bouchard.
Huh? I thought JIC said a bunch of the other players were born and brought up in Canada. If PKB was not brown, I would have called him a white/Anglo-Saxon supremacist. In these North American countries, everyone is a descendant of an immigrant. If we want to draw a line, maybe we can draw a line to everyone who came through their system vs not. So, maybe anyone who was in Canada as a 7-10 year old or earlier should qualify as bona fide Canadian if you want to discount for players brought up by other countries' systems and just relocated due to money, e.g., the recruits in the middle east from Africa, Uruguay (for soccer), etc.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

prasen9 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:20 pm
PKBasu wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:16 pm The one truly Canada born and bred tennis player was Montreal-born Eugenie Bouchard.
Huh? I thought JIC said a bunch of the other players were born and brought up in Canada. If PKB was not brown, I would have called him a white/Anglo-Saxon supremacist. In these North American countries, everyone is a descendant of an immigrant.
Not sure what “truly Canada born and bred” means. The kids that I mentioned were born in Canada. Truly. Not a word of a lie. They have birth certificates to prove it. And they were developed in Tennis Canada’s program at York University just North of Toronto. So why would Andreescu & Auger-Alliasime not be considered “truly Canada born and bred”??
PKBasu wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:16 pm Besides, being rather physically attractive, she had other distractions (like Anna Kournikova before her).
Gosh! That sounds like a sexist old comment. Do we ever speak about male players like this?
PKBasu wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:16 pm I remember there was another Pole called Aleksandra Wozniak (not Wozniacki, who represented Denmark) who shone for a few years for Canada, then faded.
Aleksandra Wozniak was born and bred in Montreal. Why is she a Pole? She is Canadian. Her parents emigrated from Poland. Similarly, Wozniacki “who represented” Denmark was not like a Rusedski who moved to England and represented them. Wozniacki is Danish.
PKBasu wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:16 pm The other one from an earlier era was Carling Bassett, who was properly Canada-born, but didn't quite live up to her early potential.
Again, what does “properly Canada-born” mean? Were Pospisil, Andreescu, Wozniacki, Auger-Alliasime and Rusedski “improperly Canada-born”??

Tell you what, these kids all grew up together, and as far as they are concerned they are all proudly Canadian – including Raonic and Shapovalov, who were not born in Canada (truly and properly). They would roll their eyes at such comments - and if they did respond it would likely be along these lines below.

https://torontosun.com/sports/tennis/bi ... cess-story
"But there is another, completely unrelated, way in which the idea of Andreescu, and Canadian identity, was examined over the course of her historic run. Near the end of her press conference, one of the many foreign journalists asked her about being the daughter of two Romanians. Was it more difficult to grow up in Canada as the child of immigrants? Andreescu did not hesitate. “Definitely not,” she said. “No, Canada is such an amazing country. It’s so multicultural. I had no trouble growing up having Romanian parents whatsoever. That’s why I love my country so, so much.”

So, yeah, she is truly, properly Canada born and bred. Thank you very much, Canada.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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I understood PKB to mean that those not born to immigrant parents. Immigrants do influence their kids with their values that are often different and bring a hunger that comes from the immigrant experience. I do consider kids of immigrants as having a different experience especially in their formative years when the influence of the immigrant parents dominates their experience.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by jai_in_canada »

It is OK to refer to them as First Generation Canadians, new Canadians or children of immigrants. It's fine to attribute their motivation to succeed to their immigrant experience.

However, terms like "truly born and bred" and "properly Canada-born" are poor choice of words. They are the types of terms used by Alt-Right racist nut jobs to differentiate what they consider true Canadians from the more recently arrived ones, whom they try to portray as not truly/properly Canadian. The Far Right wackos blame people not of English or French heritage for ruining Canada's identity, culture, values, quality of life, and standing in the World. Ironic that these children of immigrants are the ones flying the Canadian flag high in international tennis (and other fields). There is a real problem with the rise of Right Wing populist/nationalist/racist politics in many Western democracies. So it is important to choose one's words carefully. As Prasen said, if those terms had been used by a white person it would be considered racist. It is racist regardless.

I had an experience with this some time ago. Canada has Universal Healthcare, although the Provinces manage it independently. They announced that were issuing new Health Cards in Ontario, where I live. I had not received mine a few months after the announcement was made. So I went into a government office to find out why I had not received mine yet. The (white) lady serving me said "Don't worry. You'll get it. Even proper Canadians have not received their cards yet." This to a guy who has been there for 35 years, and whose taxes help pay the salary of the person who was serving me. Well, her ancestors also came from away, and worse wreaked havoc on the First Nations. So if anyone truly has a complaints about people invading and ruining their identity, culture, values and quality of life, it is the First Nations. Everyone else (or their ancestors) emigrated from somewhere else.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

Post by prasen9 »

Precisely. This and experiences like that my daughter had to face when someone told her that now she would be sent home after Trump won make us bristle at these terms that are used. My daughter was born in CA and has spent most of her life in PA. Interestingly, because of such racism, she has actually developed more of an Indian identity than I tried to inculcate. PKB has not lived in the U.S. for a long time. So, he does not understand the sensibilities that go with these terms and that is why I did not write more about that.

Whatever we want to say, maybe let us just use 1st generation, 2nd generation, etc. instead of saying proper Canadians, true Canadians, etc.


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Re: ATP Tennis/Non-India Davis Cup

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^^^ :Offtopic: Yes, Trumpism quickly infected Canadian collective consciousness, but fortunately didn't seep into the political sphere in a big way. One extreme politician in the Conservative Party of Canada did break from the party because he found them to be not conservative enough by his estimation. He founded the ultra right People's Party of Canada, but he won ZERO seats in the last parliamentary elections.

It's interesting that Trumpism had the positive effect of helping your daughter embrace her cultural identity with pride on her own, when your attempts to inculcate it in her weren't as effective. Actually it might be BECAUSE Dad wanted her to do something that she didn't want to do it. 😊 Hey, so you have Trump to thank for something. 😋 Reverse psychology sometimes works.

I am, of course, happy that Canada is multicultural, but I also want it to retain some of its English and French heritage. That leads some people to accuse me of being an anti-immigrant Right Winger. 🙄

It's fascinating that some of the biggest supporters and defenders of Trump online and on college campuses are India-born Dinesh D'Souza, Ben Shapiro (who is an Orthodox Jew) and Candace Owen's (who is a young black woman). All three are very passionate and articulate conservatives who are happy to debate. As long as the debate is civil (even if energetic) it's good. The problem is that the political rhetoric of Trumpism arouses latent racist resentments that then make life difficult (heck, even dangerous) for vulnerable minorities.