Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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Atithee
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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby Atithee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:49 pm

Are 70% of the toilets working? If yes, then end of the discussion for me. Even if it is just 7 of the 10 that were built.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:56 pm

Atithee wrote:Are 70% of the toilets working? If yes, then end of the discussion for me. Even if it is just 7 of the 10 that were built.
No that is not the end of the discussion. This is the short-sightedness that causes these projects to fail. That is the beginning of discussion. The point is whether everyone is using the toilets. If you have toilets and nobody is going to use it, then we should have used the money for something else. Furthermore, Modi alone did not build all those toilets. Lastly, we do not know because there is no data. The CAG believes that a lot of the data is falsified. On the ones that they checked, substantial number of toilets were not working. Then, many were not used. Modi does not care about any accountability in these projects and about data from not being falsified. The project has been termed a failure by almost all reviewers. This is money wasted. The previous government as well as this government owns the successes and failures for this project.

Here is another article: School toilets in India Modi promised eradication of open-defecation related problems by building toilets in every school in India within one year. That project was started by previous administrations. Even today there are many toilets that do not work and more that people do not use.

We can and should demand that we do better.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby Atithee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:51 pm

It starts with building them. Yes, the real success will be in getting people to use them. You can't put the cart before the horse. If you build it, they'll surely come (go in this instance).

It's like steam engines and railways. You can't wait to convince people to use rail in the buggy days. You build the engines and run trains and sooner or later it'll take hold.

A better example is gas cooking instead of coal or kerosene fired stoves. People refused to use gas in the early days. Some even thought their Rotis are being filled with gas. But, it worked.

We can discuss this ad infinitum and never converge, so I'll leave it here as far as my contribution to this topic.

P.S. I'm on record in this forum as to how disappointed I'm in Modi's results for all the expectations.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:02 am

Atithee wrote:It starts with building them. Yes, the real success will be in getting people to use them. You can't put the cart before the horse. If you build it, they'll surely come (go in this instance).
This is where we differ and I hope Modi is smart enough to realize that. They will not come if you build it. People do not want to change habits. You need to do more for people to use them. Toilets are not like bridges that people will be see the convenience greatly and use them. If a toilet --- most of these are shoddily made --- is not used for five years or whatever, it will rot or things will grow in it. In other words the money will be wasted. The issue is also that many were not built but declared to be built. When people cannot see the toilets, then cannot use them. The other issue is that no proper accounting can be done of what has been built and what has not been built because the data collection has been shoddy and Modi does not care that the accounting is shoddy. There is a reason the CAG said that the project has been a failure. There is a reason why even Modi's government moved the dates from 2019 to beyond.
It's like steam engines and railways. You can't wait to convince people to use rail in the buggy days. You build the engines and run trains and sooner or later it'll take hold.
This is not true for many behavioral issues. If you simply put anti-smoking items in the stores, people will not change their habits. I am not saying open defecating is addictive. But, there is a reason people have public health campaigns. These campaigns are very important and without these the projects are doomed to fail.
A better example is gas cooking instead of coal or kerosene fired stoves. People refused to use gas in the early days. Some even thought their Rotis are being filled with gas. But, it worked.
Atithee bhai, you are possibly from a middle class family. 55% of India has not yet come. Please see: Cleaning Up Cooking The issue is not the same because there is a cost associated with it. LPG is more costly. But, here people believe that there is no cost benefit to defecating inside toilets. That is the main problem. You have to do both hand in hand. You cannot do one without the other. A serious public communication campaign is needed. I had hoped PR-master Modi would realize that. I do hope that he actually realizes that still --- better late than never.
We can discuss this ad infinitum and never converge, so I'll leave it here as far as my contribution to this topic.

P.S. I'm on record in this forum as to how disappointed I'm in Modi's results for all the expectations.
Thank you for your contribution. I post to elicit comments from the other side and to understand the other side of the issue. But, in many social cases, build it and they will come did not work. I will try to collect other examples. Unfortunately, this is going the same way.

I am not disappointed that much in Modi's results per se because I knew he was flat-out lying. It is not that easy to convert a huge country overnight. Acche din would not even come if swayang Ram took over the reigns. Or even Bhagwan. I think Modi has done some good in some areas. He generally perhaps has good motivations but his understanding of policy issues is not that deep. In some cases, he has brought in some idiots to lead the respective divisions. I think if he delegates to people who have actually done things and then oversees them, then he could achieve more. But, maybe because of political compunctions he has to tolerate idiots like Irani.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby sameerph » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:33 pm

Another huge win for Modi in winning the largest state of UP with a landslide margin in an election which was fully fought by BJP only on Modi's image. It seems that Demonetisation has in fact benefited BJP rather than hurting it as they have election after election after that in last few months. ( local body elections in Maharashatra, Gujarat, Orissa etc and now big election in UP.)

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby Sin Hombre » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:43 pm

Perception matters. And India has had decades of inaction against corruption.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:30 am

So, what do people think of the new governor of UP? I used to know of people here who wanted our coaches to have a resume. Well, actually, this guy fits the bill. Modi needs UP in the next (central) elections. Who could be better than this chap?

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby suresh » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:08 am

prasen9 wrote:So, what do people think of the new governor of UP?


You mean chief minister, right?

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:12 am

Sorry, yes. I have been in the U.S. for too long, I suppose :-( #idiot

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:58 pm

The short-sightedness of this Baniya ruling class will cause more harm to India that will take years or decades to clean up. Coal Plant to pollute Delhi [more] Acche din to come to people of Delhi. That is, more pollution will take the lives of umpteen number of people, who can then enjoy acche din in heaven/hell/next-life. Idiots. The choice is not between economic development and public health. We can achieve both by investing in a clean economy and taking care of people's health. Making such false choices is poor policy.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby PKBasu » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:53 am

Just saw the long exchange between Atithee and prasen9 regarding toilets and their use. There is a massive public-interest advertising campaign that Modi has been running nationwide precisely to change perceptions/habits. I believe it is beginning to have an impact, especially on youngsters, across the country.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:47 pm

Hope you are correct. But, it needs to be more than just one person saying things. It is a smart idea to focus on the young if you cannot focus on all.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:45 pm

The Modi government is one of the most corrupt we have ever had. Now, the Lok Sabha has passed a law that allows corporations to make political donations in the dark and removes limits on them. Corrupt governance I hope the Rajya Sabha will have the spine to stop this corrupt bill from being passed. While the rest of the world is making progress towards transparency in governance, our crooks want to take the country backwards!

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby jayakris » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:32 am

prasen9 wrote:The Modi government is one of the most corrupt we have ever had.

Any empirical evidence or real data behind this statement?

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby Varma » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:55 am

prasen9 wrote:...While the rest of the world is making progress towards transparency in governance, our crooks want to take the country backwards!

Our country is so so forward already, the only way for us to move is backwards :p :p :p

You are taking "Modi hating" to new levels, Prasen :)

- Varma


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