Leander Paes thread...

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby jayakris » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:54 pm

Sandeep wrote:
Yeah, as long as they can enter any doubles events, the seedings really don't matter. But Lee should be playing with Hesh, and if not, with Bops. Jay

Jay, I didn't get you. Why should Lee be playing with Hesh and Bops?

The first thing for me in these leep years is Olympics. He allowed this MB-RB pairing happen, and I was complaining again, that's all. Even if he may not be the only one to blame, from what we hear. So, though one of these foreigners is a better partner for tour reasons (I have no reason to think so, but he may have his own), I would complain. Jay

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby Sandeep » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:25 pm

I think LP is better off with some younger partner than MB. If LP chooses Vishnu, I think they will be a better pairing than MB/RB or LP/MB (in the current state). If he maintains his top-10 ranking, I think India can choose two pairs, isn't it?

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby jayakris » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:29 pm

Vishnu??? Come on. He is no comparison to RB or MB, right now, for medal-level Olympics - because of lack of high level experience. Had LP played some events with Vishnu and given him some exposure to tour level doubles earlier, it would be different, but Lee has never done that with any Indian since doing it with Hesh in 96. It is too late to bring up Vishnu to that high level by Olympics time - though I too have always felt that Vishnu could turn into a really top-notch doubles player. To be fair, we can't ask LP at age 38 to be doing those things too, like going to challengers to bring up Vishnu. I pestered Harsh once to play with Vishnu because I thought VV had terrific potential, but Vishnu's ranking was not high enough for even some challengers and HM had no time to work with yet another player after going through 3-4 and trying to help bring them up, as he was in his final push before retiring.

Having said that, if LP and VV play even 4 or 5 tour events together before Olympics, I wouldn't be surprised if they create havoc at Olympics! But where are they going to play for prep? They can't get into any ATP draw. If LP was paying attention, he should have played with VV at Chennai with a wc, which he could have probably got. He suddenly wakes up and says VV is the next coming of whoever, and that is the way to do it? Come on Lee, you are driving me nuts!

Jay

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby Sandeep » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:12 pm

At the end of the day it could be LP/MB that AITA chooses to represent India.

Come on Lee, you are driving me nuts!


Jay, unless you have some concrete information that LP was the primary reason for the split up, you blame LP a bit too much for all that has happened. He tried patching up with MB for Olympics and it didn't work out. According to some newspapers, he even asked RB which was never going to work out (MB and RB are great friends). So what options has he got? What could he have done differently so that he could have paired with MB/RB for Olympics?

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby jayakris » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:01 pm

No, I am not blaming LP alone. I said that clearly above. I just care for him more, in some sense, and wanted HIM to be there in the Olympics team, while I could live with either MB or RB with him (prefer MB still).

LP is the key for us winning the medal. In my mind, he is the only player we have who is unparallelled in how well he does what he does best - which I can't say for MB or RB, even if they are top-5 type doubles players. That's why I care for LP more when it comes to Olympics, because you do need such potential for superlative effort/abilities to pull off Olympics medals.

LP has not disagreed (as far as I know) with MB that it was he himself who wanted change things after one year together. MB did not say he wanted to play with anybody else this year, and he said it was LP who said he wanted to play only few events with MB to be fresh before Olympics etc. LP didn't disagree, afaik. Of course LP had to have known (well, any of us could have foreseen it) that RB would not play with LP if MB was left out. Then what was Lee trying to do? Thinking too much and messing things up, and that's what I feel.

Whatever MB did or did not that brought Lee to want to do this, is something not really out in the open - but I assume MB is to be blamed for whatever that is. Have assumed so all along. So, as in the first split, second split, and the Nth split now, I blame them BOTH. But Lee is the one who is out in the lurch now, for an Olympics partner. He should have known that this would happen and done whatever was needed. MB had alternatives, and LP did NOT. So he was the one to bite his lips and take it. For not doing that, is what I blame LP. Now look at the mess. But I suspect this is what he wanted - as he may be super-confident that he will have one of these two guys with him for a few events before Olympics anyway, either because they crash and burn or because AITA will force it.

If I felt MB was making life hell for himself, I would blame HIM too. But he is in decent shape, unless MB-RB looks like a terrible team, which is doubtful. They would anyway be one of our two teams it seems, so he has not lost much except perhaps a better chance for a medal. So, I am not that frustrated that he is in some sort of plight, to go after him for taking it that far. But I feel LP is in a bad place now, even if he doesn't realize it because he is cocky confident.

Now, if LP's plan was that he only wants 3-4 events with MB or RB before Olympics (for the sake of avoiding being jaded) and that AITA will after all force the issue after MB-RB fail like he expects or something, then it is rather cynical. He shouldn't be thinking like that either. For two reasons, one - it is wrong to do. Two - the idea of playing just 3-4 events has not worked for multiple Olympics. That's all what I lump together and call as "bad karma" which Lee probably disregards in favor of possibly some tennis judgment in his mind, or ego or politics.

In any case, there doesn't seem to be much doubt that he could have stopped this if he wanted though it would have taken him (in his view) swallowing a bitter pill for a few months. That is why I blame him. I am not so sure MB could have stopped it from getting here, but that doesn't mean I do not blame him or anything either.

Jay

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby cricketics » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:56 pm

I hope Somdev doesn't get ignored here. He formed a pretty good team with treat huey and played some brilliant tennis in recent US OPEN. I think Bopanna/Somdev can be a real good team too.

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby prasen9 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:05 pm

It's pointless to discuss this issue to figure out blame, any further. It is what it is. I hope all three players are in the top of the doubles rankings and then we can have two teams. At that point, AITA can determine what would be the best combinations and the players told to suck up their egos and just play.

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby PKBasu » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:07 am

I am also a bit concerned about the Mixed Doubles. To the extent that she has said anything, Sania has clearly come out in support of MB in the Indian Express-split saga. I hope Sania/LP is the pair we send to the Olympics MxD competition, simply because LP's temperament is likelier to get us a medal. From a purely tennis standpoint, MB/Sania makes more sense because Sania would play the forehand side (as does LP), while MB's natural side is AD court (backhand side). But temperament is really the key to fetching that medal, and gold in MxD is a distinct possibility in my view.

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby rajorshi » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:13 am

I think you need to qualify for either singles or doubles to stand a chance of playing in the mixed doubles. Sania doesn't have much chance in singles. Even in doubles she has a lot to defend before the Olympics. But I believe she can make it. The problem with Lee-Sania pair is not just their court preferences. They haven't played together even in 1 grand slam which means they clearly don't see each other as a complementary partner on the big stage. However, since majority of big players wouldn't have the chance to see them as a pair, they(sania/lee) might just be able to surprise! All said, I will still go for Bhups or Bops!

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby Sandeep » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:34 am

For some reason MB is more successful in mixed doubles than LP. I think the pair of MB/SM will be as lethal as LP/SM.

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby kujo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:00 am

Name: R. Jayakrishnan
Website: TennisIndia
From: Kerala, now in Irvine, California
Time: 1998-11-14 15:45:16
Comments: I agree with Prasenjit's comment below about AITA doing their job lately. Yes, it can only help the upcoming Indian players - I am glad to see Vijay Kannan, Vinod Sridhar, Harsh Mankad, Saurav Panja, Vishal Uppal, Mohammed Ghouse, Vijendra Laad, etc, all doing well at various time during the last few weeks - none has slipped, though none has shown world-beater results either. The next 2-3 years are crucial if somebody from that group (and a couple of others too) to take some really big steps and show up for India - LP and MB won't be around for ever, though they are not old or anything.


13 years later, we still are discussing LP-MB for Olympics doubles medal and LP just won the Chennai open doubles title with Tipsarevic!! While that entire group of youngsters mentioned in the post, no longer play tennis....

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby PKBasu » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:07 am

I wonder which Prasenjit Jay was commenting on there! (Likely the other one...). "Md Ghouse" was actually Mustafa Ghouse of course...we were just learning some of those names 13 years ago!

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby suresh » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:23 am

Has to be you PKB -- prasen9 must have been in high school 13 years ago :-)

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby jayakris » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:51 pm

I am pretty sure that it was PKB then. Mohammed Ghouse??? Yikes!

Yeah, in 2001 March, when I told LP that I was sure he would be playing at least another 6 more years for sure, he laughed like crazy. He said, no way in hell. It's been now 11 years since that.

Jay

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Re: Leander Paes thread...

Postby prasen9 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:07 pm

suresh wrote:Has to be you PKB -- prasen9 must have been in high school 13 years ago :-)
Suresh, grrrh. No, I was a better student than one still attending high school at 27 :-) I was in grad school then. I have had email conversations about tennis with Jay from 2000, and then followed his daily updates and then joined this site. But, most possibly in 1998, I was not following his site; the reference must have been to PKB.

Update: A quick search revealed PKB's comment. I never recall using the site where these comments were made. Interestingly, one Sharada Ugra commented on that site at that time.
Name: P.K. Basu
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From: Singapore
Time: 1998-11-13 08:40:00
Comments: Jay: Keep up the great work. For once, there is something to commend the AITA about. The long program of satellites, futures, challengers and finally the (Gold Flake still?) Indian Open are the sort of shot-in-the-arm that Indian tennis sorely needed. If only we had this long a program at the start of Leander or Hesh's career (or Niru's for that matter), how much more they might have achieved...It was a stroke of terrible luck that Fazal had to miss the satellite circuit, and now Prahlad is missing out on the first of the Futures. But with the points from this round of satellites and futures, we should soon have Srinath in the top 300 and Fazal in the top 500. Hopefully, after taking on the world at Hartford, Hesh will be able to devote some time to gaining a few challenger points to get his singles ranking to the respectable levels where it belongs (in the top 200, if not 150). Cheers, Prasenjit

Interestingly, Mahesh Bhupathi never made it to the top 200. His shoulder injury is only partly to blame.
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