Indian Athletics Thread ...

[SaniaFan]

He was not the one who set the pace either. He was with the front 8 for a while, then was with the front 4, but never really setting the pace. Maybe he pushed front group a bit from 1500 to 2000, if that is what you meant.

He did set the pace and was leading in the beginning for around 800m after that Kenyan took over.

[jayakris]

Arjun is not saying this was a slow heat. He is saying similar to what I wrote yesterday.

In a fast race, the top guys will dip well below 8:10. Sable has no medal prospects in that race imo unless he breaks his national record by a few seconds. Slower tactical race or a race with incidents, much better.

That I can agree. If the race is 4 or 5 seconds faster than the Tokyo final (and the Tokyo final may be what you and Arjun are calling a slow race), then yes, Avinash may not finish even top-6. Tokyo was 8:09 to 8:12 for medals and 8:15+ for everybody else. The heats he just ran had better times actually. It is possible that 5 or 6 guys at Paris have an 8:05 in them, in a race that ends much faster than the Tokyo final (see what kind of burst the appeal-spot Kenyan had in him in the first heats!). I doubt Avinash has an 8:05 in him. If it is an 8:08 Gold with some incidents and all that, he can get to the 3rd thru 6th positions with something right at his NR with an 8:10 or 8:11. He will certainly need to get to that timing, I reckon. Let us see how this goes.

I just want to see him in our top-8 list as the second athletics member, that is all. Not expecting a medal at all from him.

[jayakris]

He did set the pace and was leading in the beginning for around 800m after that Kenyan took over.

Okay. That is still too early to call setting the pace though. To be generally at the first spot or two from 500 to 2500 probably is. He was there only briefly from 1800 to 2000 or so. He had caught up and was trying to set the pace from there, to be more precise. Then the water jump ended that plan as he fell to 4th/5th. He stayed with the pace till 2700 or so and then coasted.

[arjun2761]

Prelims in the long distance events are tactical races for the top contenders. That is, they typically lead as a pack but at a cruising pace (i.e., not too fast to not tire themselves more than necessary) and separate only in the end (often the last lap) if it is necessary. The first and third heats went exactly per that template.

Per NBC commentator, Avinash pushed the pace in the first couple of laps and the top contenders followed so there was a leading pack of 5 for most of the race. However, in the end, the last lap, actually it became 4+1 where the other four cruised to a finish while Avinash struggled to keep up even at the cruising pace and almost walked the last few steps when he saw no one close behind him but he looked gassed. Otherwise, he would have cruised home with the top 4, none of whom were sprinting as there was no need to do that as the 6th person was way behind. Out of context, Jay misunderstood the "much earlier," as being in the middle of the race. It referred to the much earlier in the last lap where the top runners typically separate themselves as much as necessary to comfortably qualify and in this case it became a top 4 with Avinash falling behind.

[jayakris]

Per NBC commentator, Avinash pushed the pace in the first couple of laps and the top contenders followed so there was a leading pack of 5 for most of the race. However, in the end, the last lap, actually it became 4+1 where the other four cruised to a finish while Avinash struggled to keep up even at the cruising pace and almost walked the last few steps when he saw no one close behind him but he looked gassed. Otherwise, he would have cruised home with the top 4, none of whom were sprinting as there was no need to do that as the 6th person was way behind.

I think you are missing a key point there. Maybe I am not explaining my point. So I will make it more elaborate

None of the front 4 was fully sure of how many from behind could take them out of the 5 Q spots - because they are 100% sure of only the count in front. For instance, if it is 3 in front, you need to be sure there is no more than 1 behind. But they actually were not sure how many were in the front group behind them. Only the guy at the back end of the group would know for sure. If that guy is the 5th guy, and there is a huge 6 second gap behind him, that guy could and probably would do what Sable did, be it any runner. There was no reason to do anything else. The heats timings do not matter at all (other than for an NR or something, but Sable already had it, so why would he run hard? His coach and many of us would have complained if he had tried to catch up with or out-race the guys in front. I sure would have. That is stupid, and an unnecessary energy expense for no reason).

The front group is never 100% sure of the numbers around them unless they turn and look multiple times (or you twist your body and look while running, that the NBC world feed commentator mentioned Sable was doing - but you lose some split second time even for that). Actually you see the Kenyan at #3 doing quick head moves in the final straight stretch, indicating he was not sure of the count in the front group and so had no luxury of slowing down. He just ran at the front 2 guys' pace. The Japanese in 4th place never even turned his head; he was not going to take any chances!

Now, I am sure all 4 of them were fairly sure that they were only 4 and there was probably only a 5th guy who was dropping behind. But not 100% sure. The small chance of being mistaken in the count and then somebody coming up from behind and making you #6 somehow was enough for them to not slow down.

But Sable was in the perfect spot and he could count 4 in front. You need no head turn to see in front, and he heard no foot steps behind him. Soon after the water jump he knew there were 4 in front and he only needed to look at the gap behind him. That was big. He was the only guy who had no worries about the count and about who might catch you from behind. So you see Sable at the final turn before the stretch raising his hand and showing the finger count. The camera shot changed at the point, so you almost can't see it in the NBC world feed video. I was watching their live US feed. That commentator saw it and found it humorous. He said, "Look at this. Sable is actually counting with his fingers to make sure how many are in front, haha". The world feed commentator did not see it at all.

I think Avinash might have been showing the count for his coach to know that he knew what he was doing. None of this was noticed by the world feed commentator. But he too commented that Sable was "being cheeky" in slowing down. That means he also knew that it was fully deliberate.

Sable was not gassed or anything. You are misreading it. There just happened to be a humongous gap between #4 and #6, and he happened to be the 5th guy. After that gap formed, if the front group had a 6th guy, Sable couldn't have done any of what he did. If he wasn't the 5th guy, then again, he couldn't do it. The other guys in the front group were not fully sure that it was still only 5 in the front group and that only Sable had fallen a bit behind. But Sable knew all of the details, he was able even twist his body and look back multiple times, and then still had 3+ seconds of gap to spare with the guy behind. So he cruised and fell behind the front group by another 3 seconds. The American picked up 2-3 seconds and caught up to half a second (some 15 ft) behind him though.

Anyway, in the normal case, I would have taken it as he struggled and got gassed, like you. But this was not a normal case. The numbers and the gaps got formed perfectly for Sable to slow down, and he did it, after even signaling to everybody what he was doing! He was not gassed or anything. It is 5 seconds slower than the time he had just last month, after all.

[jayakris]

^^^ But I could be creating a big Ramayanam epic about it all. He could've well been just gassed and got lucky that there wasn't a 6th runner in contention ... Just saying that it was most probably not the case. The slowdown at the end was much more than what a gassed player would do (and more like he had some injury/cramp), which is why I was thinking it was nothing but just deliberate.

[PKBasu]

I wish I could hope that the triple jumpers will perform close to their best distances, and make the top-8 as well. Everybody here thinks those PBs were spinach-inspired though

[Atithee]

I wish I could hope that the triple jumpers will perform close to their best distances, and make the top-8 as well. Everybody here thinks those PBs were spinach-inspired though

More like induced. If only it were inspired!

[jayakris]

Here is what Sin Hombre and Sameer said after Sable's Diamond League National Record 4 weeks ago

Sable with a new national record at the Diamond league in a fast race with 8:09.91. He was in 4th for most of the second half of the race but lost momentum on the last barrier with a tired jump and had two others just pip him at the line. Very good effort.

Yes, saw this race. Sable was indeed very good. This season he had not done much so far but looks like he has timed it well to peak for Paris olympics. It will be too much for him to expect a medal among all the Ethiopeans and Kenyans but a top 8 finish at the olympics will also be great in this event.

I also found a video of that Diamond League race with his NR, and watched it now. He fell from 4th to 6th at the final jump and did not have an extra gear after that. He is not the type who has a lot of extra reserves at the end from whatever I have seen. Maybe he tends to lag a bit at the end, rather. Except at the 2022 Commonwealth games silver behind Kibiwot (the Kenyan at #3 in Avinash's heats yesterday). He actually stayed step for step with Kibiwot there, showed a burst at 2500 to go well ahead of two other Kenyans in the front 4, put a big distance from the bronze guy, and even picked up a meter on Kibiwot in the final 20 meters. He had enough reserves there at the end. Let us hope he will have that in the final.

Also, as Sameer said above, maybe he is peaking at the right time and the stars will align for an 8:08 in the final.

[jayakris]

Jyothi Yarraji was 7th in her heat with a 13.16 seconds run. Very disappointing. She did 12.78 last year for her NR. Even a 12.85 would have been enough for SF heats. I expected her to somehow squeeze into the SF, joining the best 18. Instead she finished way lower, at the 35th spot among 40 athletes, while on ranking she was 22nd.

I haven't followed her. Any idea what caused her to regress this much from last year, at age 24?

[jayakris]

Annu Rani finished 15th out of 16th with a 55.81. Thank God for a Sri Lankan being there to finish behind her

Why do we even send people like Annu Rani to Olympics anymore?

[jayakris]

Sarvesh Kushare finished 13th in his high jump qualification group with one 2.15m jump and then nothing good. Another finish way near the bottom.

[Mugundan]

Annu Rani finished 15th out of 16th with a 55.81. Thank God for a Sri Lankan being there to finish behind her

Why do we even send people like Annu Rani to Olympics anymore?

Or someone like Priyanka Goswami (even after St Moritz!). She finished 41st in her 20km and today she and Panwar did not finish the marathon relay after lying at a low place post-25-30km.

[SaniaFan]

I think Panwar did his bit but last leg that was to be done by Priyanka was unfinished. It may be because they had too many penalties.

[Rajiv]

Sarvesh Kushare finished 13th in his high jump qualification group with one 2.15m jump and then nothing good. Another finish way near the bottom.

In 1984 Nallaswami Annavi Jumped 2.12 , that too with a Straddle not a Fosberry Flop.