Davis Cup 2024- India

[jayakris]

^^^ You are whining too much these days :shrug:

I know ... Will cut down on it. I used to be much more a cheerleader before. Now that ITD does that job really well, it is probably okay if we do not do too much of it here, so I whine and criticize here

[jayakris]

I think we have to pick a slower hard court to suit Sumit's game. Sumit has won far more matches (eight wins including 2 main draw wins) in hard GS's (including qualies) than he has on clay (where he has 1 qualies win). So he can be effective on slower hard court surfaces. Our hope will be to have Sumit win 2 matches and win the doubles. Quite a long shot but not beyond the realm of possibility...

Yes, that is what we need to do. But do we know which hard courts in India are slow? If it is a home tie, I will leave it to Sumit to pick the court... but, for all I know, AITA will pick a court that does NOT suit him. (Oh crap, I whined again )

[Rajiv]

If it's a home tie, we need to take a decision which could be termed preposterous and unthinkable but looking at it with right attributes it would be a logical decision.

Hold the tie on a red clay, and if we don't have one, make one, as I am sure the powerfull cartel has sufficient resources to make it happen.

Cause the chances of Sumit winning are higher on a clay court compared too winning hard or grass, and also Ramnath who can play on clay, could be handy, not that I expect him to win, but surely can cause some troubles by taking a set or two to mentally disturb the opponents, and ofcourse for the doubles bandits , surface is of least consideration as any surface is acceptable, even cowdung too.

This out of the box needs to be considered to look at the situation practically ,considering the players we have on hand, and once again it is very sad to think even on these lines, for a home tie grass court nation.

But all these innovative thinking is in vain, and cartel would do what it does best, hold it in their back yard or give it to one of their gang members, as on so many occasions during Anand's reign he publicly voiced his dissapointment on hard courts being preferred over Grass.

[sameerph]

Our problem is if we choose clay, our second singles player ( whoever we choose) becomes totally ineffective. On hard courts, second singles players has a chance but than Sumit's chances reduce. So, slow hard courts may be better.

Looking at the rankings of the players in the opposing teams, Korea, Sweden, Colombia and Norway appear to be more beatable opponents. All other teams have 2 singles top 100 players which makes it tough. Korea or Sweden would be likely to be away though.

[Rajiv]

2nd singles players results would be on expected lines and can be ruled out irrespective of any surface.

So here the moot point ,is 2 singles win by Sumit and the Dbls, win, and to garner and hope for 2 wins by Sumit the probability is at its highest on Clay , so the search leads to choose a higher probable.

[sameerph]

2nd singles players results would be on expected lines and can be ruled out irrespective of any surface.

Agreed, unless RamK notches up some impressive results in next 6 months and zooms up to inside or at least close to top 200. Than, on his day he is capable of a top 100 win on faster surfaces.

[jayakris]

If it's a home tie, we need to take a decision which could be termed preposterous and unthinkable but looking at it with right attributes it would be a logical decision.

Hold the tie on a red clay, and if we don't have one, make one, as I am sure the powerfull cartel has sufficient resources to make it happen.

Cause the chances of Sumit winning are higher on a clay court compared too winning hard or grass, and also Ramnath who can play on clay, could be handy, not that I expect him to win, but surely can cause some troubles by taking a set or two to mentally disturb the opponents, and ofcourse for the doubles bandits , surface is of least consideration as any surface is acceptable, even cowdung too.

This out of the box needs to be considered to look at the situation practically ,considering the players we have on hand, and once again it is very sad to think even on these lines, for a home tie grass court nation.

But all these innovative thinking is in vain, and cartel would do what it does best, hold it in their back yard or give it to one of their gang members, as on so many occasions during Anand's reign he publicly voiced his disapointment on hard courts being preferred over Grass.

So correct. I will go with clay. Not necessarily red clay, as it might work to the opponent's advantage, but rather make our own version of a weird clay surface that suits our players.

I had felt for a long time, after we saw that we had given up on grass courts being part of developing our players' distinct skills, that we should build an advantage with cowdung-type courts. Or "clay courts" but hard cowdung type base and some sandy, slippery, stuff on top... I believe only India has these crazy courts too. It can also be pretty fast for clay, which will not be too bad for guys like Sumit, but could help guys like RamK too. But we need to organize an event or two on that surface for them to get used to it, or remind themselves every year of what to do on it (many have played on that type of clay courts in India). Whatever... But do something to give ourselves some distinct identity.

Again, that all needs strategic thinking. As you described very well above, none of that will be done by the "happy family" cartel that AITA is. They have never done anything out of the box. Actually they are the best in world in NOT doing anything out of the box, because that would only upset the "happy family" of their own people who have their system of patting each other in the back and staying out of each other's way. All at the expense of Indian tennis.

[Rajiv]

^^^ You are whining too much these days :shrug:

I know ... Will cut down on it. I used to be much more a cheerleader before. Now that ITD does that job really well, it is probably okay if we do not do too much of it here, so I whine and criticize here

True that is what they are best at (Cheerleading) and are glorifying artists... where even the young next in line Khanna gets positive coverage.

It's only out here that we look at things in the right perspective and call spade a spade.

Samarth and Sumanta were quite eager to have our very own twitter account and if that were to happen, I would surely get myself a twitter account.

[sameerph]

So, let us take a look at our possible opponents for world group 1 tie in September. We will not be seeded among the 24 nationals who are playing group 1 ties. So, our opponents will be one of the top 12 seeds.

So, they are likely to be 1 among these 12 ( a couple may vary based on new rankings which will get updated today or tomorrow)-

Serbia (home)
Croatia (home)
Kazakhstan (home)
Sweden (away)
Korea (away)
Colombia (toss)
Switzerland (away)
Hungary (toss)
Japan (home)
Portugal (toss)
Austria (home)
Norway (home)

Everyone looks tough against our current team.

A couple of changes in this lineup after new rankings got published. Israel and Bosnia and Herzegovina replace Japan and Norway.

So, this is it now-

Serbia (home)
Croatia (home)
Kazakhstan (home)
Sweden (away)
Korea (away)
Colombia (toss)
Switzerland (away)
Hungary (toss)
Israel (home)
Portugal (toss)
Austria (home)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (toss)

Israel looks much more beatable than other team, Bosnia and Herzegovina also does not have a top 100 player.

[arjun2761]

I think we have to pick a slower hard court to suit Sumit's game. Sumit has won far more matches (eight wins including 2 main draw wins) in hard GS's (including qualies) than he has on clay (where he has 1 qualies win). So he can be effective on slower hard court surfaces. Our hope will be to have Sumit win 2 matches and win the doubles. Quite a long shot but not beyond the realm of possibility...

Yes, that is what we need to do. But do we know which hard courts in India are slow? If it is a home tie, I will leave it to Sumit to pick the court... but, for all I know, AITA will pick a court that does NOT suit him. (Oh crap, I whined again )

https://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/cat ... ace-speed/

The link above has the court speeds in 2019 for ATP venues (arranged in order of speed). I couldn't find anything for 2023. As you can see many hard courts are significantly slower (such as Indian Wells, Miami, US Open etc.) and our serve challenged players such as Somdev, Yuki etc. have done well on those surfaces. If he can get in, Sumit may also do well in those venues. In addition, the commentators noted that the Australian Open surface this year was a lot slower than previous years and that is perhaps why Sumit did as well as he did this year.

In India, Sumit has won a challenger title in Bangalore and made the SF in Chennai last year, so it may be worth seeing where he does well this year in the 3 challengers. It's quite likely, he will do better on the slower surfaces.

[Atithee]

I was surprised at rally length as a metric of court speed. I thought a ball machine would fire balls at the same setting on different surfaces and the bounce behavior (speed, spin, skid, etc.) would be measured and compared.

Balls used can also impact this right, e.g., how much they are pressurized. Not sure if the article mentioned that. I know it mentioned rackets. I believe different tournaments use balls pressurized to different specs.

Addendum:

Some info on the effect of balls. This article talks about slowing of surfaces AND the ball type. But nothing on pressurization. Regardless, balls used also impact the play.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/th ... -confusion


Another published article on this. Fascinating.
https://rua.ua.es/dspace/bitstream/1004 ... 5-1_14.pdf

[prasen9]

https://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/cat ... ace-speed/

The link above has the court speeds in 2019 for ATP venues (arranged in order of speed). I couldn't find anything for 2023. As you can see many hard courts are significantly slower (such as Indian Wells, Miami, US Open etc.) and our serve challenged players such as Somdev, Yuki etc. have done well on those surfaces. If he can get in, Sumit may also do well in those venues. In addition, the commentators noted that the Australian Open surface this year was a lot slower than previous years and that is perhaps why Sumit did as well as he did this year.

In India, Sumit has won a challenger title in Bangalore and made the SF in Chennai last year, so it may be worth seeing where he does well this year in the 3 challengers. It's quite likely, he will do better on the slower surfaces.

Sorry, I don't see the list of courts arranged according to their speeds. Where should I look? Apologies for the extra work.

[arjun2761]

^^^You have to scroll down to the third article in the link. I've copied the data below.
The last 3 numbers represent the speeds of these courts. For example, Chengdu was the fastest court in 2019 at 1.57 while Munich at 0.67 was the slowest court in 2019.

Tournament Surface 2019 Ace% 2019 2018 2017
Chengdu Hard 14.8% 1.57 1.05 1.16
Antalya Grass 14.6% 1.47 1.25 1.74
Tour Finals Hard 11.7% 1.31 1.12 0.75
Marseille Hard 11.7% 1.29 1.21 1.34
Newport Grass 12.7% 1.27 0.87 0.76
Australian Open Hard 12.9% 1.27 1.16 1.14
Brisbane Hard 13.3% 1.26 1.35 0.99
Atlanta Hard 14.3% 1.25 1.01 0.86
Shanghai Hard 13.0% 1.24 1.17 1.53
Sao Paulo Clay 9.8% 1.24 0.89 0.92
Halle Grass 12.8% 1.23 1.16 1.18
Stuttgart Grass 14.5% 1.23 1.42 1.27
Sofia Hard 11.1% 1.21 1.14 1.33
Antwerp Hard 11.2% 1.21 1.25 1.06
Davis Cup Finals Hard 11.9% 1.20
Metz Hard 13.5% 1.20 1.51 1.34
Paris Bercy Hard 11.9% 1.19 1.06 1.03
Montpellier Hard 13.4% 1.17 1.13 1.11
Vienna Hard 11.4% 1.16 1.16 0.98
New York Hard 17.0% 1.16 1.05

Tournament Surface 2019 Ace% 2019 2018 2017
Winston Salem Hard 12.1% 1.15 1.01 1.07
Basel Hard 14.2% 1.14 1.03 0.77
Beijing Hard 11.6% 1.12 1.03 0.91
Washington Hard 15.5% 1.11 0.99 1.11
Moscow Hard 13.5% 1.11 1.21 1.45
Delray Beach Hard 13.9% 1.10 0.98 0.97
Doha Hard 10.0% 1.10 0.88 1.02
St. Petersburg Hard 8.4% 1.09 1.13 0.80
Stockholm Hard 11.2% 1.08 1.03 1.05
Tokyo Hard 11.6% 1.08 1.34 1.18
London Grass 12.8% 1.07 1.25 1.20
Auckland Hard 10.7% 1.06 1.17 1.11
Pune Hard 14.8% 1.05 0.99
Cincinnati Hard 11.6% 1.04 0.98 1.22
Canada Hard 10.8% 1.03 1.17 0.97
Dubai Hard 8.4% 1.02 1.04 0.91
Eastbourne Grass 13.2% 0.99 0.94 1.00
Wimbledon Grass 10.5% 0.99 1.14 1.03
Sydney Hard 9.3% 0.98 1.25 1.10
Zhuhai Hard 6.9% 0.97

Tournament Surface 2019 Ace% 2019 2018 2017
Marrakech Clay 8.4% 0.97 0.62 0.77
US Open Hard 10.2% 0.97 0.98 0.96
s'Hertogenbosch Grass 10.2% 0.95 0.99 0.89
Cordoba Clay 6.9% 0.94
Rotterdam Hard 8.0% 0.90 1.13 1.09
Lyon Clay 9.9% 0.90 0.89 0.85
Gstaad Clay 5.6% 0.88 1.16 0.92
Acapulco Hard 11.1% 0.86 1.03 0.92
Miami Masters Hard 9.5% 0.86 0.78 0.84
Los Cabos Hard 6.5% 0.85 0.80 1.28
Geneva Clay 6.6% 0.81 1.04 0.85
Bastad Clay 7.1% 0.80 0.72 0.88
Kitzbuhel Clay 6.3% 0.77 0.84 1.02
Hamburg Clay 7.7% 0.76 0.69 1.02
Indian Wells Hard 7.6% 0.76 0.84 1.03
Houston Clay 9.2% 0.75 0.81 0.94
Madrid Clay 7.0% 0.71 0.84 0.89
Roland Garros Clay 7.0% 0.71 0.72 0.76
Rome Clay 7.0% 0.69 0.69 0.85
Munich Clay 7.0% 0.67 0.74 0.99

[prasen9]

Thanks much Arjun.

[sameerph]

We get Sweden in Sweden. This is one of the better match-ups for us. Sweden's top 2 singles players are ranked 160 and 256 and top 2 doubles players are ranked 67 and 150. So, this looks much more winnable than many of the other possible opponents.