As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.
Rajkumar Sharma wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:28 am
It may hurt you, but he is definately in. No one can become Gayle or Shewag with 7 T20Is.
We shall see. But, tons of players and at least 10s of wicket-keepers have scored tons more than 14/innings. In fact, none of our keepers perhaps batted as poorly as Jitesh. I am fine if he proves himself in the IPL and gets in. But, otherwise, someone who actually knows how to bat should be chosen.
Jitesh is someone who can play aggressive at the middle over. So, team can definately use his hard hitting ability in powerplays
prasen9 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:16 am
Wheather its domestic or internationals only one name is going around. Dont think MOS in the last series can be so easily thrown out. Jaiswal as mentioned tough to leave him out but for options and combination such decisions should be taken.
prasen9 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:37 am
Nonsense. Dube succeeded against a limited opposition at home. Yashasvi has done much more. Interesting that MOS suddenly becomes important and when Axar drubs the opposition and wins the MOS away from home I think that somehow does not matter.
No doubt on Jaiswal, but Dube brings balance to the side. Dube will bat at middle order, he has no issue with Jaiswal.Axar got himself drubbed, failed to impress when skipper shown confidence with his skills, batted at top order failed, better not to say about his bowling in 2022 T20 WC, not a big match player. Too much sense might hurt the team more like it has been happening.
prasen9 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:37 am by morons if they choose him automatically. Again, if anyone has a stellar IPL, we can choose him. He should be in the team but not an automatic choice for the first 11. That should be based on form, pitch, etc.
Useless things doesnt matters, he will definately be in the team and might end up as Vice captain.Only a lunatic can talk about Axar or others in place of Jadeja, that too in slow tracks of US & WI. Better players should rest now they had their moments and given lots of joy in ICC events. IPL thrown stars before every T20 WC, but they weren't considered weather it be Ruturaj, V Iyer or Umran. So, IPL might be the reason for players like Sarfaraz etc. Real Proven failures have created world record by getting bashed in Knockouts, hope good thinks happens on 8th occasion of T20 WC
Coming to T20,
Jaiswal being part of Mumbai team will have enough push from Rohit to play over Gill. Further the rugt left combo also gives him a big advantage.
Iyer will be gone: Hardik playing for Mumbai Indians as captain may actually place him at a disadvantage in team selection. But likely if fit Pandya will replace Iyer
Coming to wicket keeper is where I see lot of hand wringing. KL was not rested for T20 matches against Afg. He was dropped. So the line of thinking is for someone like Jitesh to come and provide blitzkrieg. I still think KL makes it, but considering his injury history Jitesh may end up securing this spot. This spot is a huge toss up
Shami and Siraj. They will not play both of them. Wanting to strike balance, they will go with Arshdeep. I still think both Shami and Siraj make the 15 if fit, but Arshdeep plays in 11.
Kuldip I can see Kuldip making it as wrist spinner especially to handle left handed batsman. But he may get occasionally replaced in playing 11 by Axar Patel or Bishnoi. Axar being a better batsman probably gets the nod
That leaves two players to be selected. Ashwin, Pk and Thakur are definitely out .
Ishan or KL giving the versatility of opening may make the 15. Leaving one more spot. Will they go with an extra batsman in Gill (highly possible) or go with one more bowler like ODI(Bishnoi).
Based on my analysis, this are the selections that could go either direction
Wk ; would not be surprised if they go with both KL and Ishan leaving out Jitesh (unlikely considering Ishan disappearance from team)
Third spinner : axar Patel, Bishnoi, still give edge to Axar
Last spot: if they go with KL or Ishan, they may not find a need for specialist batsman. Would it be Gill or they go with Dube as allrounder? If u had asked me if Gill would be dropped before ODI wc, i would have said Gill absolutely makes it. But I can see a scenario where Dube as allrounder barely sneaks in.
Rajkumar Sharma wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:04 pmJitesh is someone who can play aggressive at the middle over. So, team can definately use his hard hitting ability in powerplays
No he cannot play because he gets out in about 10 balls. We need someone who is both agressive and does not get out. Hitting a six and getting out is useless.
No doubt on Jaiswal, but Dube brings balance to the side. Dube will bat at middle order, he has no issue with Jaiswal.Axar got himself drubbed, failed to impress when skipper shown confidence with his skills, batted at top order failed, better not to say about his bowling in 2022 T20 WC, not a big match player. Too much sense might hurt the team more like it has been happening.
Dube is not a bowler. He gets thrashed everytime he gets the ball. He should not get the ball. Dube is a batter. Axar is more a bowler who can bat a bit.
prasen9 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:37 am
Useless things doesnt matters, he will definately be in the team and might end up as Vice captain.Only a lunatic can talk about Axar or others in place of Jadeja, that too in slow tracks of US & WI. Better players should rest now they had their moments and given lots of joy in ICC events. IPL thrown stars before every T20 WC, but they weren't considered weather it be Ruturaj, V Iyer or Umran. So, IPL might be the reason for players like Sarfaraz etc. Real Proven failures have created world record by getting bashed in Knockouts, hope good thinks happens on 8th occasion of T20 WC
Jadeja has failed throughout his career to do anything with the bat. He has batted poorly. His bowling is defensive and is not as good as that of Axar. I doubt he will be the VC. Bumrah will be the VC. Only stupid people will talk about Jadeja being able to bat, bowl, etc. in T20Is when he has not done so over a long career. Show me where Jadeja has done well with the bat in T20Is. Or stop spewing nonsense and lies. Axar has done better than Jadeja and should be in the team. Both are in my 15 though.
Jitesh gets out in 10 balls when there is nothing to do except blind hitting specially when overs are less. You can't expect n.o 6/7 to hit a ton in 4-5 overs. There is not a single bowler who doesnt gets thrashed in T20I. Dube's bowling will suit in slow & sticky wickets of US & WI.He bring balance to the team, as batting will be deep, he along with Pandya can do the job of 3rd pacer as Shami is out, there is no quality 3rd pacer in T20I.
Jadeja has got more experience in playing overseas and will be more effective then Axar.Both of them bats down the order doesn't gets enough over to play. Axar was tested in T20 WC when he was promoted in big matches but he failed, if stupid people selects him then you should'nt have included Jadeja in 15
Rajkumar Sharma wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:03 pm
Jitesh gets out in 10 balls when there is nothing to do except blind hitting specially when overs are less.
No, there is. Hit and don't get out. Or better still get batters who can bat more than 10 balls.
You can't expect n.o 6/7 to hit a ton in 4-5 overs.
That is the type of nonsense you are proposing. I never asked for that. I asked for someone who can hit a 25 consistently. Or a 35 when needed. There are umpteen number of #7s and #8s who do that.
The average #7 from the top 10 countries averaged 23 in the last year. So, if you get beyond your nonsense example of hitting a ton, you will realize after taking some elementary arithmetic courses that 23 is about 50% more than what Jitesh is producing now. We need someone who averages at least close to 22-23 and has a strike rate of 140. Not the normal garbage you are proosing who either score 14 runs/innings or bat at 125-130 SR.
There is not a single bowler who doesnt gets thrashed in T20I. Dube's bowling will suit in slow & sticky wickets of US & WI.He bring balance to the team, as batting will be deep, he along with Pandya can do the job of 3rd pacer as Shami is out, there is no quality 3rd pacer in T20I.
Every pacer gets hit but nobody gets thrashed like Dube who goes at 9.86/over. The only two who are worse than him are PK who gives 11/over and Umraan 10.48/over. All three of these should be miles away from bowling. Dube can come in only if someone is injured or so. Our three pacers should be Bumrah, Arshdeep/Siraj and Hardik. Dube is emergency bowler at best and his bowling is of little value because he gets thrashed regularly as shown by his worst rate numbers.
I am pragmatic. Jadeja gives better value than Washy. But, against Axar, it is not clear that he is better. He has experience, huh? So, we should choose Rahul and not Jitesh? Or do you have no basis for anything and just random thoughts?
As a bowler, I am fine with Jadeja over Axar. They are about the same. With the bat, Jadeja is terribly slow. He should only be batting at #8 or so. Not any earlier. Jadeja bats at a SR of 125. That is really, really poor for a person batting at #8, etc. So, essentially, Jadeja the batter is a terrible misfit. Does not belong to T20Is. We have a whole bunch of players who can play at over 140: SkAY, Yashasvi, Gill, Dube, Rinku, etc. and Rahul, Rohit, and Kohli are just a shade under 140. We should not bring in someone who bats at 125 in the MO. If we are looking for someone to bat lower, Axar is a better fit, with a SR of 144, which is really much better than what Jadeja provides us.
KL batting at 4 means SKY & Rinku will get very much less overs to express themselves towards end to set a good total, as the ball eater will maintain run a ball innings in middle overs. More Rinku & SKY bat instead of KL more chance for the team to score big. KL doesn't suits in this team so its better to pick Dube. Dube & Pandya will be a great unit for a big finish. Jadeja was a part of T20 Squad in South Africa as VC.Axar played the full T20 WC didn't delivered when 144+ SR was expected from him. He is nothing but replacement of Jadeja, got enough opportunities but has failed to break the barrier
What that does is that gives a clear message to Rahul not to mess around and eat up balls and a clear message to Jadeja to not do the same. These are the two slowest batters we have in my team. Of course, if we bring in slow coaches like Ishan, Samson, Kohli, etc. that is another matter. I don't like slow coaches.
Rahul and Axar/Jadeja should not be batting before 6 or 7. Hardik should be given clear instructions not to waste balls.
Jadeja cannot hit like Axar can. That is what he has proved. He hit at 144 but scored 19-20 runs and got out. Jadeja does tuk tuk and does not get out. At the end, we get the same runs from them but Jadeja's average is more because he does not get out. Don't need tuk tuks. Play him as a pure bowler and I am fine with him over Axar.
Axar's line and length is better but perhaps Jadeja spins the ball a tad more than Axar. Also, Jadeja is street smart. So, he keeps the runs down while bowling a tad better than Axar despite having slightly less control. Or may be that lack of control is variation he intentionally imparts to keep the batsman guessing. As a pure bowler, I am fine choosing Jadeja.
We should just get Yashasvi to start bowling and he can bowl 1 over for 10 runs which is what Dube gives us. The classier bat should play.
Jadeja since 2015(after Axar’s debut) is averaging 30 with SR 137 compared to 19 and SR of 144 for Axar
Bowling Jadeja averages 25 with ER of 7 , while Axar averages 24 and 7.26.
I think they are almost similar excepting Jadeja has a far superior average and a IT factor that be brings with his fielding. Right now I am inclined to go with Jadeja over Axar. I am open to better candidates though .
The batting discrepancy looks a bit deceptive. I think you get a better picture if you use the following. In a match, how many balls does Jadeja face and how many runs does he produce. Ditto for Axar. Because in T20Is, whether you are out or whether you are not out at the end does not matter except maybe if you are not out at the end of a winning chase, that has value in that you did not leave it to the next batters.
If we look at the number of runs each scored per match they played and the number of balls they faced, then you will see that the number of runs scored/match is about the same. At least was the last time I had done that analysis.Jadeja just eats up a few more balls to score about the same number of runs/match is what I saw. Maybe things have changed?
Jadeja 16.5 runs in 12 balls per match. Axar is 11.6 runs per 8 balls. So Jadeja scores 5 runs more taking 4 more extra deliveries. If he played at Axar pace, he may have scored 17.5 runs.. so the difference is one run. Would you give Jadeja’s fielding to make up that for run?
This is again after Axar’s debut. Both of them are not ideal, but to me Jadeja has that edge that Axar do not.
Yes, I agree now that Jadeja is a better bet assuming fielding over Axar's career. Changed my mind. Maybe I was looking at the last five years. I'll check the last 3-5 year record.
prasen9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:34 pm
Yes, I agree now that Jadeja is a better bet assuming fielding over Axar's career. Changed my mind. Maybe I was looking at the last five years. I'll check the last 3-5 year record.
u were probably looking over their entire career. Jadeja's SR was way worse at the beginning of the career. Jadeja has played very few T20I over the past 5 years (around 26 matches).
I did not realize that Shami will not play. Indian mgmt has been pretty bull headed in their combination. They will play with three pacers and two spinners + pandya just like they did in the WC. Would they feel comfortable not having an extra pacer in the reserve. My gut feeling is that they will pick an extra seamer. One of Akash Deep or Mukesh will make the team with extra edge to new flavor of the month in Akash Deep.
so the likely team
Rohit, Jaiswal, Kohli, sky, pandya, Jitesh, Jadeja, Kuldip, Bumrah, Siraj , Arshdeep
Axar, Gill /Rinku, KL, Mukesh / Akash deep
