World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

[Kumar]

I would like to say that I was not sure if KL and Shreyas would be back from their injury.. more truer explanation would be I forgot them…

I am not impressed by any of the keeper options.. so If fit, KL could double up as keeper which was the case in the prior series with Australia’s. Also considering that this is played in india, May be we will need a third spinner instead of an additional seamer..

Also the caveat is that Jaiswal can at least bowl 3-4 overs with an RPO of 6-7.

These team is very similar to the one that played the first odi against Australia except for Sky and Kuldip Yadav being part of the team.

[prasen9]

I think you missed Utpal Chatterjee in that list, who had performance to play more for India. Kulkarnis & Kartiks were preferred ahead of him. Dinda was more a longer format bowler and was better then VRV, Pankaj Singh.Laxmi Shukla was brought much ahead then he was international ready. Shiv Shankar Paul was unlucky of them, as he had domestic performance and had good India A tri nation series in Kenya where MSD & Gambhir was known for the first time.

Absolutely. My list was not exhaustive. Almost every East Zone player has had to prove himself more or did not get a long enough run. But, many other other-zone players also had that problem. See Sarfraz.

[Kumar]

https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... y-8641073/

Article about the frequent injuries to the indian bowler. I think yoyo test probability does not make sense for bowlers and also for pure hitters who are lookin toscore big shots. I think basic fitness is key and also some level of endurance. A guy like Ranatunga was so smart with his running between wickets is more important.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

You have selected the core but the biggest issue is what will be the strategy of our bowlers in case of dew. In October - November, there is high chance of dew and recently our bowlers were thrased in UAE & T20I semis when there was no spin or swing.Extra pace might matter in such cases so the management needs to work with Umran & Kuldip Sen.

[prasen9]

Good thinking. But, the issue is whether rudderless extra pace is useful. Because, one actually loves extra-pace full-tosses due or no due. And, freebies down the leg. Umraan may be able to fix his issues. Kuldip I have not seen enough. He may be good. The problem is that we need to play them to give them some exposure and see whether they are good enough or not. It seems we have decided on: Siraj, Shami, DLC, Hardik, Thakur. These are the ones whom we have invested in the last 2 years. If any of these are injured Umran and Kuldip will get a look. Also, much as people do not like the last three with the ball, they can bat a bit. We can't really win 7 or 9 games at a trot without having a #9 who can bat. If we play 3 or 4 #11s, then we will not win. The #9 is not needed in every match but once or twice in 7-9 matches they may need to come out. And, if it is in a close knockout match, we may need that bat. So, Umran and Kuldip are promising and I don't mind giving them a lot of matches in West Indies, etc. But, they need to work on their batting too if they want to increase their chances. Or pray for injuries to Siraj and Shami.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Report says Ishan Kishan is going to make debut in WTC final as team wants good batting with keeping then average batting with keeping of KS Bharat, but KS should get fair chance before being sidelined.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Good thinking. But, the issue is whether rudderless extra pace is useful. Because, one actually loves extra-pace full-tosses due or no due. And, freebies down the leg. Umraan may be able to fix his issues. Kuldip I have not seen enough. He may be good. The problem is that we need to play them to give them some exposure and see whether they are good enough or not. It seems we have decided on: Siraj, Shami, DLC, Hardik, Thakur. These are the ones whom we have invested in the last 2 years. If any of these are injured Umran and Kuldip will get a look. Also, much as people do not like the last three with the ball, they can bat a bit. We can't really win 7 or 9 games at a trot without having a #9 who can bat. If we play 3 or 4 #11s, then we will not win. The #9 is not needed in every match but once or twice in 7-9 matches they may need to come out. And, if it is in a close knockout match, we may need that bat. So, Umran and Kuldip are promising and I don't mind giving them a lot of matches in West Indies, etc. But, they need to work on their batting too if they want to increase their chances. Or pray for injuries to Siraj and Shami.

Well, i would like to go with 5 batters comprising of keeper, 2 allrounders at 6 & 7. Four pure bowlers ( 1 spinner, 3 pacer or whatever). If we want batting after 6/7 in home soil then we should'nt dream of wining the WC. Agree with Sharmaji, we have seen what happened in UAE and Adelaide, pacers didnt got help, neither spinners were able to turn the bowl in presence of dew, in such cases only extra pace can make difference. Bhuvi, Shardul, Hardik, Deepak hasn't got skill to ball in the presence of dew.

[prasen9]

Every world cup winning team needed their #8 to bat in at least 1-2 games to rescue the team and get it to a win. Show me a team that won the world cup that had a #11 type pure bowler batting from #8 through #11. Building teams on imaginary propositions does not result in World Cup wins.

[prasen9]

Agree with Sharmaji, we have seen what happened in UAE and Adelaide, pacers didnt got help, neither spinners were able to turn the bowl in presence of dew, in such cases only extra pace can make difference. Bhuvi, Shardul, Hardik, Deepak hasn't got skill to ball in the presence of dew.

Sure. And in the history of cricket, pacers who were wild have never been able to bowl in presence of dew and in the absence of dew either. Bhuvi etc. may not have the skill to bowl in the presence of dew but Umran and Kuldip don't have the skill to ball in the absence of dew either. I would rather take someone who can succeed some of the time than someone who cannot bowl most of the time. And not bat. We need batters at #8 and #9 at least. That is called insurance and insurance is needed in modern day cricket if you have to go hammer and tongs from ball one, which England, etc. will ensure that we need to.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Agree with Sharmaji, we have seen what happened in UAE and Adelaide, pacers didnt got help, neither spinners were able to turn the bowl in presence of dew, in such cases only extra pace can make difference. Bhuvi, Shardul, Hardik, Deepak hasn't got skill to ball in the presence of dew.

Sure. And in the history of cricket, pacers who were wild have never been able to bowl in presence of dew and in the absence of dew either. Bhuvi etc. may not have the skill to bowl in the presence of dew but Umran and Kuldip don't have the skill to ball in the absence of dew either. I would rather take someone who can succeed some of the time than someone who cannot bowl most of the time. And not bat. We need batters at #8 and #9 at least. That is called insurance and insurance is needed in modern day cricket if you have to go hammer and tongs from ball one, which England, etc. will ensure that we need to.

2011 WC was played in March April, when dew was least. So who is that someone who will ball at flat Wankhade and defend 350+ chase in the presence of dew in the month of october ? Bowlers who can bat at 8 & 9 means Shardul & Deepak, who are rubbish bowling towards end of the innings and i dont see them troubling batters with their skills in flat indian condition. When it comes to England, i haven't seen Sam Curran, Woakes, getting brutal hammering like indian pacers.So, they have space in thinking of setting up long batting, Deepak, Shardul doesnt gurantee such type of bowling. Shardul started at 135-140 kph and now he balls at 125-130 kph, same goes to Chahar, with such pace he can't trouble batters.

[prasen9]

If we don't have players we will lose. We can only hope that players who have performed somewhat will do so. Choosing idiots who have performed nowhere will do us no good. That is called selecting based on hope. Again, name one past winning team, say after 1980, who played 4 #11s and won. Has not happened in the history of cricket. I do not recall if the WI fielded four quartets among Marshall, Garner, Walsh, Roberts, Holding, etc. but some of them could bat better than the Umran/Kuldips/Shami/Sirajs of the world.

My point is that maybe you are right that these players will have problems. But, what we have is like a short towel. If you try to cover one side, the other shows and if you want to cover the other, one shows. It is a complete false premise that #8s don't need to bat for a team to win the world cup. Total nonsense, if you think that the #8 comes at 6 down. If we have these bowlers come at #8, even if the top 6 have batted for 40 overs, we are pretty much giving up 10 overs. You cannot compete against teams having 8-9-10 batters by playing with 7 batters and 4 duds with holes in their bats. I am not saying that will happen in every match, but it will happen in 1-2 matches. Teams who have people at #8, who can bat at 5-6 runs/over in the end overs will win. See England. If that was indeed so, we would have seen teams employ that strategy of playing 4 flat-out bowlers. They do not. Because of a reason. If you want to win the world cup, you need #8 and #9 to bat. In some match. So that you are not knocked out.

Our '83 world cup was saved by Kapil and Kirmani. Having 4 #11s would have meant, bye bye. Kirmani was our #9. That team won only because they did not believe in the nonsense of taking four #11s because of their bowling especially when we don't have a Marshall-Garner-Roberts-Holding combo waiting for us and have jokers like Umran/Kuldip instead. We need our #8 and #9 to be average (with respect to their positions) batters.

The Umran/Kuldips of the world are being hit all over the park even with the dry ball. Wishful thinking can only go far. Just because someone has some holes does not mean that you get some guys off the street and that will work.

[Kumar]

Yes, England has revolutionized the ODI.with the long batting line up, they go hammer and tongs, that they are not frazzled even if they lose half the side cheaply.

The question, would this ever happen with a indian team that will have three anchors ?

I am open to Kuldip Sen (getting some chance(23 and 5.75) in 14 appearances, but definitely not Umran. Umran needs to harness his line and length. Neither his economy 6.45 or his average(35) at the list A level gives confidence.

@Sharmaji,I am surprised that a champion of domestic cricket like yourself is pushing for Umran Malik. He neither has proven domestic performance nor longevity (that you say is required for indian team selection. Granted, he has one attribute that cannot be taught, but he seems to be unwilling to be learn other attributes of pace bowler. Kuldip has just played 14 list A matches, though his record seems kind of okay.

[prasen9]

Both are prospects and may be great for the next world cup. But, you need to learn and improve at the internationals after you exhaust opportunities in the domestics. They are still learning in the domestics. But, if they are next in line, they should be played all the matches we have maybe about 6 (3 against WI in WI, 3 against Australia in India) + Asia Cup = 3/4 more? Play them and give them at least that much chance to improve or figure out what to do in what situations, how to bowl in dew, etc. Then, if they are consistent, I won't mind them being in the full team and replacing Shami or Siraj if hurt. But, the only way they can replace the Hardik/DLC/Thakur 3rd bowler is if they figure out how to bat and score 10-20 runs at a run/ball.

[Kumar]

Rohit Sharma got hit on his thumb during nets practice. Will have to see if this changes the equation.

With cloudy and overcast conditions expected, very likely that Ashwin will be dropped. I would go with 4 bowlers and play both Ishan Kishen and KS Bharath has to play.

As Prasen pointed out, india really missed the trick by not having extra batsman in the 15. There was really no reason for Axar Patel to be part of 15. Axar could have been reserved and if Jadeja got injured he could have been bought in.

Also Hardik should have been bought in . He would have been handy in English conditions.

[Atithee]

Ishaan is a walking wicket. I’ll not play him in this test at least. Who’s the vice-captain? Pujara?