ODI World Cup, 2023

[prasen9]

You can enjoy your last place finishers. Only jokers enjoy last place finishers. I suggest you watch all of SRH's defeats and see how Umran was hit out of the park. That will fill you with joy. Others less insance will want 5 wins than 5 defeats out of 6. If you are a masochist, watch SRH and Umran by all means. More power to you. I would rather be a #2 or #4 than #13. Good luck to your jokers.

Anyway, the selectors are never going to select the failures you are touting. Good for them because I doubt the whole of India is insane to want your domestic losers in the team.

[Kumar]

@Prasen, the frustration for me is that we are wedded to the team of Rohit, Ishan, Sky, Gill, Kohli, Pandya and Jadeja as our top 7.. (replace Ishan and sky with KL and Iyer if fit). We won in 2007 because thr oldies were let go voluntarily or involuntarily (there are reports that Dhoni forced them out).

I am not too fixated on the ICC events. It is the process that is an issue. Selectors and team mgmt has shown utter lack of creativity in preparing for the future. We are still waiting to rush Bumrah , as if he is the magic pill that will take us to the top, risking his future. Look at the ODi team selected , what is the reason to play Kohli or Rohit or Siraj in this series. We know what they can do.

Our team under RD captaincy went to 2007 wc with lot of odi wins and some unbeaten streak, but still came unglued. Cricket is not like soccer or hockey or even BB where u need to play together as team to understand tendency.

To me, India was on upswing after 2021 england series. Ganguly started this rot by pushing Kohli out. They miscalculated big time, that KL was ready to take over. And if they thought that Bumrah was going to be their all format captain, those guys needs to be taken to doctor. Now we are at a point that Hardik another injury proner acting as white ball captain and we have no alternative after Rohit in red ball.

There is a clear lack of vision.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Atleast IPL failures are not hurting the national team performances whereas experienced proven failures have let down the nation at every ICC events.Team now needs to leave away those 130+ jokers who have played back to back ICC events and got a big Zero in trophy cabinet.

Who said selectors will not select them.Umran had great IPL 2021, one or two season failure can come as you were very much concern earlier about SKY's few match failures. You should see the squad, Umran is right there in WI tour squad and very soon you will be seeing those jokers more in national team as selectors are now tired of those 130 +proven failure jokers out of which some have registered themselves as full time NCA.

[prasen9]

Kumar, I am fully with you. I am also not against giving Umran chances in WI and seeing if he succeeds. I am also much in alignment with Atithee's thoughts. I think he is showing utter frustration when he says that there should be no yardsticks for selection, etc. Or at least the literal interpretation of that sentence meant that.

I am against these people who think that players who are utter failures in domestic cricket would magically win us the cup when they drove their teams to the last place in the IPL, which is an easier tournament. As you know, I do not believe that individual players are really fully responsible for their teams winning or losing but this cabal calls players losers if they win 6 and lose 1 match. By their logic, the biggest failure is Umran, who drove SRH to the last place. So, they want last place losers to be selected. This is sort of an upside down world they live in. That is what I am objecting to.

Umran, Avesh, Kuldeep are talented. Kuldeep Sen may even be ready for ODIs. Avesh may be ready for tests. Umran may also improve in ODIs. But, these guys talk as if these untested folks are the Starcs of the world and magically, if you bring someone who can hurl the ball fast and is young, that will fix everything. This is the nonsense I am talking against.

The unfortunate fact is that we don't really have the bowlers to be confident about. We need to take a gamble on the best we have. And, have someone captain out of their mind to hide their flaws and the batters should bat out of their skins to win us the crucial matches. And, doses of luck.

[prasen9]

Atleast IPL failures are not hurting the national team performances whereas experienced proven failures have let down the nation at every ICC events.Team now needs to leave away those 130+ jokers who have played back to back ICC events and got a big Zero in trophy cabinet.

Who said selectors will not select them.Umran had great IPL 2021, one or two season failure can come as you were very much concern earlier about SKY's few match failures. You should see the squad, Umran is right there in WI tour squad and very soon you will be seeing those jokers more in national team as selectors are now tired of those 130 +proven failure jokers out of which some have registered themselves as full time NCA.

Umran drove his team to last place. Of course, players can improve. But, I don't have much faith that these proven losers will win us anything. Umran got smashed out of the park in 2021. Of course, you love losers. So, you enjoy his 2021 performance. Look up his runs/over. Batsman loved tonking him last year. Batsman still love tonking him this year. Proven losers like him need drastic improvement.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Atleast IPL failures are not hurting the national team performances whereas experienced proven failures have let down the nation at every ICC events.Team now needs to leave away those 130+ jokers who have played back to back ICC events and got a big Zero in trophy cabinet.

Who said selectors will not select them.Umran had great IPL 2021, one or two season failure can come as you were very much concern earlier about SKY's few match failures. You should see the squad, Umran is right there in WI tour squad and very soon you will be seeing those jokers more in national team as selectors are now tired of those 130 +proven failure jokers out of which some have registered themselves as full time NCA.

Umran drove his team to last place. Of course, players can improve. But, I don't have much faith that these proven losers will win us anything. Umran got smashed out of the park in 2021. Of course, you love losers. So, you enjoy his 2021 performance. Look up his runs/over. Batsman loved tonking him last year. Batsman still love tonking him this year. Proven losers like him need drastic improvement.

Umran has played just 8 Odis whereas your proven failures Bhuvi, Deepak NCA, Shardul, bench warmer Umesh has played alot, few of them also got roasted in WCs, CT....It can be predicted who is backing proven failures. Even Nortje, Fergueson has got smashed, Rauf was sent out of the stadium by Livingstone but they are big names now as their team backed them, Umran is getting similar type of backing from the team.

[prasen9]

Umran has played 46 T20 matches and has given up 9.21 runs/over. Batters love when he is bowling because they get freebies that they can hit out of the park. He is a proven failure by your logic because his teams have failed to win the cup. He has played many, many tournaments. Last year, he drove his team to last place. I would prefer someone else than last placers.

He has indeed played 11 List-As where he has been smashed at over 6.2 runs/over and taken wickets at more than 34 runs/over.

He has been an even more failure in tests.

This guy may work out in ODIs, where we have a bit less data, but his being an all-round proven failure in all sorts of cricket does not give me much hope. If he is going to use up slots in West Indies and because the stupid selectors did not send others who have actually succeeded, I would hope he learns and is useful in the WC but I am not holding out much hope for a proven loser to become suddenly a winner.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Bhuvi Kumar has played 289 one dayers, 350 T20s
Shami has played 211 one dayers, 179 T20s
Shardul 132 one dayers and 171 T20s
Deepak Chahar 71 one dayers and 156 T20s

What they given to the nation with all this high voltage experience ? Give counter on achievements not on stats....Umran & others are new and are selected because these players with their enormous domestic & international experience have failed to give India an ICC title.

[prasen9]

They have given us umpteen number of wins. That is important. The losers have given their teams much fewer wins than these bowlers. Several of them have played many years in domestics. And, won their teams nothing!

Why should I give evidence on some nonsensical metrics you guys make up? Stats show what they have done on the field and they have done better than the losers.

The failures in domestics have given all their teams misery throughout. There is no point selecting professional failures like Umran to replace bowlers who have won us many matches and are failures in a handful number of games. We have been consistently ranked #1 or #2 due to these bowlers bowling well unlike Umran whose team placed last.

Our best ODI pace bowlers to date are: Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, PK. Unfortunately, two of them are injured. We should only play two #11s. So, we have Shami and Siraj and they should play. In this IPL, Shami went head to head with the losers and came out bowling better than all the losers in this IPL. The proven losers should not be included. If Bumrah or PK are fitter, we will have some depth.

[Kumar]

Thakuar has got 12 matches in india and his bowl avg is 25.16 and ER 5.97
Umran Malik has got three matches and his avg is 26.16 and Er is 7.13
Bhuvi has got three matches and avg of 22 and ER 4.5


Yea , bhuvi has failed , but he has performed most of the times.

How many list Amatches did Umran play before he got his ODI debut. 3 list A matches. He has probably played the least number of list A matches before getting selected.,

Since Umran’s debut,
Thakur has played 4 matches with average of 22 and Er 5.9
Siraj 13.21 and 4.61
Pandya 30 avg and 6.2
Shami 30 and 5.66



So, u think it is wrong for Jaiswal to get selected in spite of succeeding at every level, but it okay to give Umran a chance for his sheer pace inspite of no domestic exposure . Are u confident, that Umran can bowl his full quota of overs? We will play with 6 bowlers (pandya and jadeja/axar).

@sharmaji, i have asked what is your criteria for selection. U seem to have different yardsticks as well. When Jaiswal selection is bought uo, u say he has not performed in SeNA A tour. But okay selecting Umran just after 3 list A appearance. Will wait for answe from Babu or Bhai.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Nobody except you cares about those nonsense bilateral wins. Just like South Africa & New Zealand, people can predict early they will get choked from Semis, though NZ had two titles SA has been fully predictable, similarly these failures has done to Indian team, people now can easily predict team will loose semis and get knocked out. We dont need India to be n.o 1by wining useless bilaterals just need to win an ICC title and prove as a global leader in cricket with performance. My yardstick is simple team needs to get rid of tried & tested ones who are failing since 2014, another chance to them means another loss waiting.

[Kumar]

So essentially by your yadrstick, a player who does not win ICC tournaments for 10 years should be kicked out? Even if rest of the llayers have been bad around them.

Kane Williamson made his debut in 2010, he should not have been selected for 2021 WTC finals.
Joe Root has never won the WTC final . Why is he playing in test match.
Sachin Tendulkar had never won an ICC event for almost 20 years of his career

Only India, Australia ams England has won the odi wc in last 24 years. So let all other teams stop playing cricket.

Why even play bilateral cricket. No one cares about this and are watching this games. But why even play any sports. Because only one person can win it.

Why do we need to wi; to be a global leader in cricket. We have a rabid fanbase, that is spending lot of money and jave spending power. So if you really think that no one cares for bilateral wins, i would happily take those bilateral wins and if indian fans turn away from cricket. That is not at all bad. May be our youngsters would play other sports becoz we can’t win ICC events.

[Atithee]

Kumar, the discussion is less about bilateral vs. global wins. It’s more about persisting with a set of players time after time. Not a single player per se. Even you agreed that the top 7 being an automatic selection is not a good idea. We must bring in change and I’m dumbfounded that the core is traveling to WI. And, WI didn’t even qualify for WC, their best don’t play for national team, etc., so what’s the logic of not even trying new players, which sooner than later has to be done?

[Kumar]

Kumar, the discussion is less about bilateral vs. global wins. It’s more about persisting with a set of players time after time. Not a single player per se. Even you agreed that the top 7 being an automatic selection is not a good idea. We must bring in change and I’m dumbfounded that the core is traveling to WI. And, WI didn’t even qualify for WC, their best don’t play for national team, etc., so what’s the logic of not even trying new players, which sooner than later has to be done?

Pretty much agree that core is broken and the entire preparation has been mismanaged. I don’t like linking their not winning ICC events to kicking them out. I have no problem kicking one of Rohit and Kohli or even both out because they have not performed well in recent years. We can ask for Kohli to be kicked out because he has not performed well for over three years and that is absolutely fair. Our batsman have performed very poorly since pandemic started and bowlers/late MO have time and time saved India in the past three years.

We need to select guys who has at least performed in domestic cricket in their place. Choose player with at least 1-2 season of domestic standout performance. None of the names that are bought up are setting world on fire.

[Atithee]

^^my only beef is the selection criteria for the replacements. I’m willing to go with the flavor of the day. We can experiment as much as we want. India has an infinite selection pool. Don’t get too analytical about trying someone. Anyone will do. Don’t want to put any faith in demonstrable domestic performances. Just pick the last five centurions and 4fers/5fers in credible matches. Don’t overthink. Hold trials against ball machines for batsmen, if you want to be analytical. Something similar for bowlers. Like an entrance exam for college. But, everyone needs to be fit and contribute with both ball and bat. These are my only rigid criteria.