New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

[Rajkumar Sharma]

That will happen. The ball loses its shine and our bowlers cannot bowl with the old ball.

This holds for every side but many of them comes good. If this continues, even 400 will be chased. Strike bowlers are going for @7 an over and have been thrashed by number 7/8/9 batters in all the recent series is a big concern

[prasen9]

It is certainly a big concern. 400 has been chased and will be chased. Against the likes of Brett Lee. Australia 3 times, West Indies once, and Pakistan once have allowed chases of over 358 succeed. We have done it once unfortunately against Australia. One thing to note here is that Australia has done it three times because they have the batting to score that many over 350 scores. We have the batting too. We need to strengthen our bowling and batting to the extent we can.

The idea of strike bowlers is old fashioned. In ODIs, all bowlers need to strike. Without wickets, 400 will be chased. And, to strike, you need to be disciplined and bowl line and length and the wickets will come. Siraj was a wonderful example. And, in some respect so was Shami. He did not have as much swing as Siraj but he never errered from his discipline. Hardik, on the other hand, bowled like a stupid idiot. His short balls were being hit for sixes and he kept on bowling them. And, Rohit went on giving him overs because his bouncers looked sexy. On the other hand, Thakur was bowling well. He had a bad over and out he goes. So, a bowler who bowls with pace and has a worse record, we continue just because he looks sexy. And, a bowler who is actually effective, we do not. Kuldeep, Sundar, and Thakur suffered by being underbowled. And, India suffered by having to see New Zealand come so close because of Rohit's pace fetish and desire to bowl Hardik so much. Maybe the team management thought that bowling bouncers is a good idea and empowered Hardik to do so. This team management is driven by idiots.

[Mukherjee Babu]

Need to play in flat pitches where its tough to take wickets and bowl doing nothing, to test bowlers. In upcomming WC, there is every possibility of getting such tracks in knockouts.

[Cricdu]

With the series already won, India would love to test their bench strength in the third and final ODI against New Zealand in Indore on Tuesday.

It is highly likely that India will rest vice-captain Hardik Pandya, pacer Mohammed Siraj, and chinaman Kuldeep Yadav. Pandya will lead India in the T20Is and both Siraj and Kuldeep are expected to play a big role in the upcoming Border-Gavaskar serie

[prasen9]

Very good batting by Hardik. Of course, Rohit and Shubman were phenomenal. We could not get 400 because of Ishan and Sundar's slow batting. Both of them were awful. Umran batted badly too but he is a #11 pushed up the order. I was very pleased by Umran's running of the last ball. He reached the other end while Kuldeep was in la la land and not running. If it is the last ball, you run. Elementary. Anyway.

Surya again played a cameo. While he did not waste balls but his cameos are not of much importance in ODIs. Our best batters are still Rohit, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul/Kishan, Hardik/Jadeja. We can possibly play both Hardik and Jadeja. And Sundar. With three pacers who are #11 and gamble. Maybe Bumrah is practicing his batting skills when his back will not allow him to bowl.

[PKBasu]

After being 212 for no loss in 26 overs, India's final score of 385/9 was a tad disappointing. The middle order needs to adjust: if the team is in such great shape, it is better to get your eye in and then go big after settling in -- not go all guns blazing like Virat and Suryakumar did from the outset. Ishan and Washington may have taken the "get the eye in" to extremes, but they succumbed to scoreboard pressure after their relatively sedate starts.

It's good India are playing 4 pacers today, as the dew may make it tough on the spinners (but slightly less so given both are wrist spinners).

Shardul got tonked for 14 and 11 runs off his first 2 overs...

[prasen9]

4 pacers? We have three I think. Hardik bowled well but he also got the brand new ball. Umran @9/over in 2 overs. We need bowlers with discipline. Unfortunately, we have to rely on Bumrah, Siraj, Shami, and PK. And, hope they are fit and remain fit. If we can rehabilitate DLC, we can try to see if he can cut it. Hardik is good as the 4th pacer but not as the third since he rarely takes wickets. We have to rely on our three spinners: Washy, Kuldeep, and Chahal. Washy is bowling tightly 3 overs for 16 but no wickets. We need wickets. All our spinners and Umran are strike bowlers. They need to do something. This pitch is horrible as is the ground. Flat and short boundaries. Not good for good cricket. Batters can just swing and giggle.

The problem is that the T20I newcomers do not know the art of the singles. Surya, Kishan, Hardik, and Washy defended a lot and then went for big strokes. There were ample singles to take. If you decide to nudge the ball for 10-15 balls and try to take singles every ball especially with Kohli willing to run hard, then you get to 8-13 easily and then you start hitting. So, it is not just about getting your eye in because then if you get out, you look like Kishan and Washy. John Wright harped on the singles. We have big hitting now but those singles and the Kohli-twos are a beauty and have to be paid attention to. My problem with Kishan and Washy was that they could not get the singles. Almost Laxman like in their elegant hits straight to the fielders.

Kishan looks like a horrible keeper. Missed an easy stumping chance off Chahal. That may be a turning point in the match. Then, he gives byes, positioning and movement are bad behind the wicket, etc. He better score some more runs in order to be in the team. Maybe there is not enough time and he will keep behind Rahul. But, someone should work with him on the basics. We would be in deep trouble if Bharat is injured and this is our keeper. Hope this is just a bad day and he is a much better keeper otherwise.

I do not know how he does it but Thakur now has three wickets! I think the human eye has this prejudice towards what looks sexy. Hardik's swing and pace. Umran's pace, etc. look sexy. Our logic says that that will take wickets. And, then we have Lord Thakur coming in and bowling his dibbly dobblies. The guy has no control but he does some small things that takes wickets. As they say, if you spin or swing the ball a lot, it may actually miss the bat! You just need to move it enough to get the edge. 29.2 117kph wide 29.4 138kph.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Does'nt know how this small things vanished from Thakur when he bowled to NZ in T20WC 2021 in UAE, quite similar track but failed both with bat & ball. Suddenly full team plays in ICC Semis and our bowlers turns school level bowlers. These bowlers will fail to defend 250-280 in these tracks, sometimes pressure of big total gives bowlers wickets. NZ bowlers getting thrashed that doesn't means indian bowlers will also get thrashed as an excuse.

[prasen9]

Well, Thakur gets wickets. Hardik does not. Nobody gets wickets everywhere, every match, every ball. So, we can always pick matches where someone failed. Even the great Bradman. I think for all his greatness, he scored a zero off his last inning! What a zero of a guy. Let us prove everything by choosing the balls they failed in. That way we don't have to worry about the whole career.

After all his hype, Hardik averages 38.52 runs/wicket. Thakur 31.74 runs/wicket. In tests, Thakur 24.44 runs/wicket. Hardik 31.05. In ODIs, maybe Hardik can have a chat with Thakur on how to take wickets and maybe he will become a better bowler? And while he is at it, maybe talk to Thakur to figure out how to bowl in tests? Oh, how about T20Is? Well, Thakur 23.39 runs/wicket vs Hardik 27.3. Heck, he should talk to Thakur to coach him in the nets on how to become a wicket-taking bowler in all forms of cricket. Maybe he can teach Thakur a bit how to bowl line and length and bat. Fair exchange I'd say. But, when we need a wicket, I'd toss the ball to Thakur and not Hardik. And, in tests and ODIs, wickets matter more.

Actually, today Hardik really bowled well. He gave away only 37 runs for his one wicket. Improved his average. Keep improving Hardik. Because even when the opposition is giving you wickets, they don't give Hardik that many. How rude! I say. He should file a complaint at the Federal Discrimination Commission for casteism. Seems like Thakurs are getting gifts that are not given to the Pandyas. If this happened over one match, we could ignore that. But, when this happens over 70+ matches, this is certainly discrimination. Why don't other teams like Hardik anyway to gift him some wickets once in a while? Such meanies.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

We should always pick World Cup Matches, as someone who doesn't understand the game also watches the game.I think an useless allrounder can't become MOS in England tour odi or a captain of T20I team. Hardik bowled opening spell today got wickets bowled first change in second odi got wickets. Thakur's 20-30 can't even come close to Hardik's batting. Definately with 380+ at the board, NZ will definately attack weak bowling of Thakur. In recently held NZ series, he was brutally thrashed by Latham & Co. in pitch supporting pacers in one of the odi with 309 in the board. There is a difference in chasing 380 and 310 and opponents plan to go after against which bowler. Thakur will get reward once he gets success when team going to defend 250-300

[prasen9]

Thakur gets rewards more frequently than Hardik. Why can't Hardik slow down and trick the opponent? Useless allrounders like him have won us nothing more than WC group matches.

BTW, I am not a Thakur fan. But the fact is for all his hype, Hardik is a worse strike bowler than even Thakur. Has been over his career. Look at their Test bowling, their ODI bowling, their T20I bowling. Of course, in a make-believe world, Hardik is more of a strike bowler. Where unicorns roam, anything can happen my friends.

[prasen9]

Let's put it down for the record. In this series, with the ball,

HH Pandya 3 3 19.0 3 123 4 2/16 30.75 6.47

Averaging 30.75 at 6.47 runs/over.

The best among humans:

His Highness 3 3 19.2 1 125 6 3/45 20.83 6.46

Both bowled about the same amount of overs. His Highness was about as thrashed (very teeny tiny wee bit less than) The Allrounder. The Allrounder took less wickets however. How rude of our guests to discriminate against The Allrounder.

[prasen9]

Now off to the T20I part of the series. The oldies have been purged a bit. Here are the old and new guys:

Old: Chahal, Surya (32), Tripathi (31), Hardik, Jitesh (29)
Young: Umran, Prithvi, Washy, Sundar, Arshdeep (23)

I think that team won the junior WC four years earlier or so. Those members are just maturing and coming into the team. Interesting to see that among the oldies we have two new comers in Tripathi and Jitesh. That should give hope to the Sarfaraz's to keep their performance going.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

If useless allrounder Hardik had'nt make us win World Cup group matches then team would have been early exit from WC. In T20 WC match against Pakistan, all so called big names including SKY went back to pavilion, it was useless Hardik & Kohli made us win the game. Useless Hardik made Indi win against Pak in Asia Cup when team was under pressure. Useless Hardik Pant set a record partnership and that made India win Odi series in England. Useless Hardik & Jadeja had 150+ partnership in Aus tour odi when team was struggling, that made India win atleast one game in the odi series. If we check his career, most of his performance came when big names didnt performed in important games. The biggest useless is winning billaterals, when other teams has started adopting new policy for selection in WC in India, our team is busy giving those half allrounders, proven failures a long go, just like they did before T20 WC. Thakur, Chahar, Sundar, Axar can't take responsibility with bat & ball when the team is in trouble, threy just love to ride the car which is already set in motion by other player's performance in a match

[prasen9]

Right. Thakur should have taken the wickets before Hardik because he knows magic. Interesting, none of the above is with the ball. Most of these seem to be with the bat. Maybe if Hardik was a useful allrounder, he would have done all this with the ball. My problem with Hardik's bowling is that he is a defensive bowler. He only gets wickets when people try to hit him and that too does not bowl the right lengths to get wickets. An allrounder is not a batsman. He should be able to do things with the ball. Hardik is good for defensive bowling limiting runs at best. Whoever is working with him should figure out how to make him more of a bowler and not just someone who brainlessly comes in and bowls short. Or he can perhaps chat with Thakur in the nets to figure out how to get some wickets for a change.

Oh, and we won against Pakistan because of the genius of Kohli. Hardik played an useless innings almost scripting our defeat. He scored 40 in 37 balls. A SR of 108 when chasing 133 is criminal. We had Dinesh Karthik and Ashwin in the stands and Kohli there too. There was absolutely no reason to play that innings unless you are playing for Pakistan. Surya, at least, did not play a selfish innings. We were chasing 8 runs/over. He scored 15 off 8 balls. Should he have scored more? Yes. But, at least he did not harm the team like Hardik did.

My contention has never been that Axar, Sundar, and Thakur have performed better in multi-nation tournaments. They have hardly gotten chances. And, none of them may be batting allrounders that Hardik is. They are more bowling allrounders if at all. Thakur's bat is weak. An allrounder, who is world-class should be able to get into a team as either a batsman or a bowler alone. Hardik will not get in as a bowler. He cannot hold his own even as the #3 pacer and that is why we are playing 3 #11s now. My contention is narrow. Hardik is a poor strike bowler. The data extensively shows that. If I need a wicket, I'd rather throw the ball to Thakur instead of a defensive bowler like Hardik. For if the opposition has wickets in ODIs, they will get the total required.