Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

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Re: Pre-mortem on the Paris Olympics disaster

Post by prasen9 »

rajitghosh wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:54 pm Indian wrestlers have the most killer instinct (pun intended). It is proven. You need killer instinct to win medals.
I have thought about this for years. How ironic is it that India, by and large a peaceful nation and peace-loving people excels in the killer sports: shooting, archery, boxing, wrestling, and the strong person sport weightlifting? Who says we do not have the killer instinct?

The only non-killers are: Sindhu, Leander, and hockey.

I always wonder why these other countries can pick up other sports that need strength and flexibility such as judo, karate, taekwondo, etc. and be competitive and we cannot.

Or the other killer sport: fencing. Maybe this takes too much money and infrastructure?

We should also focus on the throwing events and cycling. Imho.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Which is why we need many more centers. The Tata center produces 1-2 great archers in 5 years to 10 years. It may be that the santhals and other adivasis and their genes make archmanship (I created the word) easy. But, I think that may not strictly be the case. We may be able to find such talent in the north east, in the islands, or even in the masses who live in our cities. We need more world-class centers with world-class coaches. This is in all sports. If our kids get the opportunity to get good coaching early on, then we will have a lot more in these sports. What is needed is massive planning and investment. But, should we do that? Or build hospitals?
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by jayakris »

Totally with you, Prasen on our needing a lot more sports centers. We need to spend MONEY. Do it. It is important enough for people, and the health benefits are not trivial. A lot of what we call INDIAN sports accomplishment are just accomplishments by some state or other. I mean, if Haryana were a country, it would have a whole bunch of India's medals. Like in wrestling. There is nothing like India doesn't have people who can wrestle in other places. Haryana has the centers and the people there gravitate to it. Even a couple of families seem to be enough! There is absolutely nothing about Jharkhand people that make them particularly better at Archery or anything. It happens that way only because the Tata academy there. If India had 5 archery academies like that in various parts of the country, we will have so many more kids at the top that these other countries can't do much against us. Like in cricket. I mean, the Indian 3rd string is better than all but probably a couple of other countries' national teams. we need to spend a lot more on sports.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

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In my backwaters, one of my friends' kids now represented Bengal in the school games, etc. in shooting. When we were growing up, there was nowhere we could really go. I grew up in the suburbs and Kolkata was not really practical for after-school stuff, etc. So things have gotten better. But, not very many people who are coaching there know a whole lot of stuff. As Prof. was saying, we need a system. Get coaches trained and require continuing education, etc. Move them all over the country and give them the opportunity. Then, we will see things automatically improve because we will have so many freaks like Neeraj coming out of the woodwork. But, we keep screaming from here all the time and nothing much will happen. India will move slowly like the elephant it is. And, in typical Indian style, we smile and accept it and be happy. It is all in the mind as you know. :-)
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Atithee »

Why not utilize the university system? They already have most facilities and are in every corner.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

What facilities? Really? All we had was a track and a pool. A gym with some weights and machines. We never had anything like a shooting range or archery facility, etc. Indian universities have places for shooters, archers, cyclists (velodrome), etc.?

Leave aside universities, in all of India, we do not have proper facilities for javelin throwers. Uwe Hohn has been harping on this for a while. People call him crazy because of some of his other demands. But, he is right. Neeraj knows the system better. He seldom directly complains and always praises the support he got. And, yes, he did get a lot of support. So, it is fair to acknowledge. But, we do not still have the facilities needed.

Need an indoor arena Neeraj asked for an indoor arena.

This is the SAI we are talking of. *The* Sports Authority of India. They do not have a proper training facility. Leave aside universities. Maybe Bengal is backward and the other universities in the other states have a lot of sports facilities. If so, I will be happy. Please enlighten me.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Kumar »

Atithee wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:44 pm Why not utilize the university system? They already have most facilities and are in every corner.

Are u seriously expecting Indian universities and colleges to have such facilities. There are very few colleges that even have a play ground (especially the newer private colleges).

I think archery requires lot of space at least 80-90 meters ! The biggest challenge is the protective screens behind the target! They are very expensive at least in US.

Thanks Jay for those articles. I would have never thought that medaling in archery is so difficult that even past winners do not do wel the second time around in olympics.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Handball and rowing are cheap and at least at the base level, does not require that much money. We should get people to play those and have some academies for each in every reasonably sized town in India. Can be done for cheap. Ditto for cycling.

Fencing, archery sound cheap but require sophisticated equipment. Shooting requires lots of shells for practising, etc. The Indian middle class can perhaps afford these if distributed to the student/sportsperson but not the rural areas. They will have to depend upon academies.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Atithee »

My point was simply that universities have some infrastructure that can be built upon rather than building something brand new. Geez!
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Sin Hombre »

jayakris wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:35 pm Totally with you, Prasen on our needing a lot more sports centers. We need to spend MONEY. Do it. It is important enough for people, and the health benefits are not trivial. A lot of what we call INDIAN sports accomplishment are just accomplishments by some state or other. I mean, if Haryana were a country, it would have a whole bunch of India's medals. Like in wrestling. There is nothing like India doesn't have people who can wrestle in other places. Haryana has the centers and the people there gravitate to it. Even a couple of families seem to be enough! There is absolutely nothing about Jharkhand people that make them particularly better at Archery or anything. It happens that way only because the Tata academy there. If India had 5 archery academies like that in various parts of the country, we will have so many more kids at the top that these other countries can't do much against us. Like in cricket. I mean, the Indian 3rd string is better than all but probably a couple of other countries' national teams. we need to spend a lot more on sports.
So why is this not happening in badminton, despite all the academies? I think you also need good coaches, and that's what works for us in cricket especially batting. Almost all of our youngsters have good technique though T20 is starting to break it; and with bowling, we can now see the benefits of MRF academy in that it created a lot of very good bowling coaches who weren't fast or good enough themselves but know how to coach others.

With Haryana, there is some element of genetic buildup and also emphasis on eating ghee and getting stronger instead of only studying. With 1G, 1S, 1B, 1S ; Haryana is well at medium income country level per capita at the Olympics.

I agree that it is a numbers game, but you need good coaching especially at very young ages.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-h ... tate-49124
India's contingent for the Tokyo Olympics included 126 athletes, out of which Haryana sent 31 athletes to the competition – nearly 25 percent of the total. The state accounts for less than 2 percent of the country's population.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Sin Hombre »

prasen9 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:35 am Handball and rowing are cheap and at least at the base level, does not require that much money. We should get people to play those and have some academies for each in every reasonably sized town in India. Can be done for cheap. Ditto for cycling.

Fencing, archery sound cheap but require sophisticated equipment. Shooting requires lots of shells for practising, etc. The Indian middle class can perhaps afford these if distributed to the student/sportsperson but not the rural areas. They will have to depend upon academies.
Handball is just two medals and it is a popular sport in Europe.

I enjoyed playing it as a kid but not a sport for Indians to spend meagre resources at.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by Sin Hombre »

I know I have talked about this before but I would be interested to work with and fund/help in some manner if sports-india wanted to put some efforts in a grassroot academy in India.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Sin Hombre wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:39 am
Handball is just two medals and it is a popular sport in Europe.

I enjoyed playing it as a kid but not a sport for Indians to spend meagre resources at.
True. But, it is dirt-cheap. You do not need to really spend any of the meagre resources on this. We have a billion plus people. Just some organization to bring people in to play some sport. It is not only about getting medals but providing sporting facilities for the people. They get cross-training and maybe some athletic ones then get noticed and shifted to other sports if needed. I think Leander used to play soccer and then moved to tennis. Of course, his parents were celebrities and had the funds and knowhow to advice him to do so.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Atithee wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:37 am My point was simply that universities have some infrastructure that can be built upon rather than building something brand new. Geez!
I do not think the universities have any sporting infrastructure. Most universities that is. All we have is perhaps an outdoor track and a few soccer/cricket fields. Rather useless with respect to the other Olympics sports.
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Re: Indian Archery Thread ...

Post by prasen9 »

Sin Hombre wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:33 am So why is this not happening in badminton, despite all the academies?
Because I don't think they have very good coaches. And, because of politics.

Haryana has the wrestling culture. It is closer to Delhi. The rest are flukes. I do not think Haryana is going to produce track and field medalists day in and day out. Neeraj is a random occurrence.
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