Imposition of Hindi... Pros/Cons of Diversity

[jayakris]

I will add my personal experience, for what it is worth.

The best team that I was part of through my 3-decade career was one that I led a few years ago. We achieved great things, and we were the envy of other teams for our camaraderie and enjoyment. Someone came up with the team name “The Jai Walkers” – because I encouraged people to walk at lunch. The team was comprised of an English-Canadian woman (Ops Manager), a French Canadian Man who was a Jehovah’s witness (Ops Manager), a white American from California who was also a Jehova’s Witness (Warehouse Manager), an Ismaili Muslim of Indian background from Tanzania (Financial Analyst), a Nigerian Woman who was a strict Catholic (Supervisor), a woman from Hong Kong (Analyst), a young woman of Italian-Canadian background (Analyst), and a gay man of Polish-Canadian heritage (Project Manager), a woman of Philippino background (Ops Cordinator), a guy from Bangladesh (Finance Manager) and myself. I did not set out looking to build a diverse team. When I hired I looked intently for competence, ability & willingness to learn, curiosity, intelligence, compassion, team spirit, process orientation, self-motivation, and a sense of humour. I ended up with diversity.

But you were all speaking English, right? If French was imposed on you, then would the team work as well? [Just trying to bring the discussion back to the thread title ]

[prasen9]

I’ll try to simplify it here. When diversity leads to one faction feeling superior to another (or others) just because, it is a problem. Religion is the easiest example of this destructive diversity. However, when diversity is about different ideas to advance a common cause, e.g., national development, it is great. Literacy, work ethics, hard work, gender equality etc. are good examples of this constructive diversity.

Quite simple.

Agree fully. And, the best way is to bring people to accept a language. Do it using good PR and give and take.

For business, a common language is needed. Those that do not have any business do not need to be forced. That is, we should have a more fine-grained tool instead of forcing everyone. How about paying people? A national Hindi scholarship scheme? To economists, it may be the same as a language tax, but in reality, people like the choice. You can use a scheme to say that we are creating translators knowing fully well that we may not need that many translators. It will just be a training scheme. A really scheming scheme at that.

[prasen9]

P.S. And the women on my team, on a level comparison, made more than the men - because they happened to have more education, experience, and expertise within the pay band. Pay equity would have resulted in these women making LESS.

Sorry, I know you are too smart to make this error. Pay equality does not mean the communist/socialist idea of everyone getting paid the same. Pay equality means: for the same experience, quality, skill, work, people should make the same pay. That is gender should not be part of the pay equation, everything else that is relevant for the job can be (within reason, meaning race cannot be either, etc.). So, these women would be paid more in your situation even with pay equity.

Even the leftists like me do not really want absolute fixed pay for everyone. Then, people tend to not work. Which my further leftists friends tell me would be fine with them. We overwork, etc. But, that is a different discussion.

[jai_in_canada]

P.S. And the women on my team, on a level comparison, made more than the men - because they happened to have more education, experience, and expertise within the pay band. Pay equity would have resulted in these women making LESS.

Sorry, I know you are too smart to make this error. Pay equality does not mean the communist/socialist idea of everyone getting paid the same. Pay equality means: for the same experience, quality, skill, work, people should make the same pay. That is gender should not be part of the pay equation, everything else that is relevant for the job can be (within reason, meaning race cannot be either, etc.). So, these women would be paid more in your situation even with pay equity.

Even the leftists like me do not really want absolute fixed pay for everyone. Then, people tend to not work. Which my further leftists friends tell me would be fine with them. We overwork, etc. But, that is a different discussion.

In my haste I didn't make my point clear. I didn't mean to imply that EVERYONE on the team from coordinator to analyst to supervisor to manager to director should be paid the same. That would indeed be the Communist ideal. My point was this. It is often been criticized that women get paid LESS than men for the same job. In this case the women got paid MORE for the same job (within the pay band for that level) than the men because they brought more value to the same job. I am comparing Managers to Managers. One male manager was disgruntled when he somehow found out that he was making 7% less than one of the female managers. I had to spend some time explaining to him that she had more experience in the role since he was promoted after her, and she had broader expertise. I showed him a path to improving his pay and speeding up his path to promotion by undertaking Project Leadership and professional certification courses. And he ended up undisgruntling.

P.S. I then moved to another company (an American behemoth) and the culture was horribly unfriendly to women and blue collar workers. I left after a short stint because I couldn't abide by the cutthroat values of profit at all costs to humans and environment. You might guess who I am referring to.

[prasen9]

P.S. I then moved to another company (an American behemoth) and the culture was horribly unfriendly to women and blue collar workers. I left after a short stint because I couldn't abide by the cutthroat values of profit at all costs to humans and environment. You might guess who I am referring to.

Ah, em, about 95% of the American companies? Oh, sorry, the word behemoth gives me an idea ...

Well now I have to accuse you of being a leftist. I knew Canadians are closet ... never mind.

[Kumar]

Never thought my reopening this discussion takes it all the way to pay parity! For some reason, this topic did not show up in active topics, do you all think women should get same pay as men if they play five setter in grand slams

I did the dakshin prachar sabha course, but that is only available to people with means! I agree that there should be no mandate, but incentive! State govt should provide means for kids in govt run schools to learn Hindi as an additional language! Mandarin or Spanish may not be a bad idea, but let’s start small! There is huge percentage of Indian population that speaks Hindi and knowing it will at least ensure that u don’t have a disadvantage and potentially provide means to survive!

I recently read somewhere, which basically stated that well run democracy will ensure that no bad things happen to a country for a longer duration (also implying that potentially good things don’t happen either for even short duration)! I am firmly of opinion that homogeneous society is almost impossible in democratic countries! The differences will always be highlighted for political and economic gains! It may be possible in autocratic society!

[suresh]

Strangely, there is no dearth of interest in learning Hindi in Tamil Nadu. Many of my cousins studied and wrote some standard exams (Prathmik etc.) when they were kids. Bollywood movies wouldn't be missed. As a kid, I remember being asked if I had seen "Gurbani" (sic Qurbani). As someone who grew up outside TN, my reading and writing skills in Hindi are far superior to those in Tamil. I am sure that I get the gender wrong while speaking Hindi though. My son doesn't know any Hindi. My wife knows enough to follow a Bollywood movie.

[Atithee]

I am firmly of opinion that homogeneous society is almost impossible in democratic countries! The differences will always be highlighted for political and economic gains! It may be possible in autocratic society!

Hmm. USA, Germany, Korea, Japan, .... are these not homogeneous societies? I can go to any corner of USA and the grocery store is laid out the exact same way. A simple but astonishing fact for me. You can live anywhere in the USA, but your daily routine is about as monotonous as it can be. I don’t know much about other countries I listed, but I think they are quite homogeneous. In fact,China, an autocratic state, may be less homogeneous than any of these other countries.

[jai_in_canada]

But you were all speaking English, right? If French was imposed on you, then would the team work as well? [Just trying to bring the discussion back to the thread title ]

Yes, the discussion, as it does in so many other topics on this forum, meandered into diversity. To answer your question, we all spoke to each other in English, but 2 of the Managers had to bilingual to deal with the customers in Quebec. So French is definitely imposed on you if you want to deal with Quebec.

[jai_in_canada]

Well now I have to accuse you of being a leftist. I knew Canadians are closet ... never mind.

Wow, that's quite a pendulum swing in the epithets that you assign to me - Bhakt to Leftist.

I'd like to think that I am neither. Just as no human with a particular set of attributes has the automatic monopoly on competence, integrity, compassion and intelligence; so also I don't think either end of the political spectrum has the monopoly on truth, righteousness, good ideas and solutions. So I try to cherry pick good ideas from both ends of the political spectrum. It's not a problem when I cherry pick the good ideas from each platform, but I sometimes get into trouble when I criticize one end of the spectrum or the other, or point out that neither one is perfect.

[jai_in_canada]

... do you all think women should get same pay as men if they play five setter in grand slams

OK, I'll take the bait.

If you are going to pay the women the same as the men, then you should also pay the wheelchair tennis players the same, and the juniors too. They are all different products but if you are not going to discriminate based on gender, then don't discriminate based on physical ability or age.

Or you can let the market decide and pay the players based on gate, streaming and TV revenues. That way an Osaka-Williams match will garner a higher payout than a Simon-Ivashka match, or a Djokovic-Nadal 5-setter will garner a higher payout than a Andreescu-Williams 2-setter blowout.

In any case, the market has already determined this. The total prize money for the WTA tour is less than the total prize money for the ATP tour. Just that in the tournaments that men and women compete together they get paid the same.

.... but whatever you do, DO NOT impose Hindi on non-Hindi speakers !!! How's that for a bad segway back to the pertinent topic?

[jai_in_canada]

I am firmly of opinion that homogeneous society is almost impossible in democratic countries! The differences will always be highlighted for political and economic gains! It may be possible in autocratic society!

Hmm. USA, Germany, Korea, Japan, .... are these not homogeneous societies? I can go to any corner of USA and the grocery store is laid out the exact same way. A simple but astonishing fact for me. You can live anywhere in the USA, but your daily routine is about as monotonous as it can be. I don’t know much about other countries I listed, but I think they are quite homogeneous. In fact,China, an autocratic state, may be less homogeneous than any of these other countries.

Interesting take on the definition of homogeneity. USA is hardly homogeneous demographically. But there is standardization of traffic laws, road signs, store layouts, language (unless you go to Southern Virgina or rural Alabama ). So that way there is less energy wasted in trivial things like shopping, commuting etc. and can focus on more creative things (like hunting and gun collection ).

Before i left India 36 years ago, one of the things that bothered me was going to a different state and feeling helpless not knowing the language - getting ripped off by autorickshaw drivers, not being able to haggle at the vegetable market etc. Back then the diversity in India was a bane and bother. So I couldn't wait to get to the US or Canada and be able to go anywhere and not be lost linguistically. Still today I marvel that I can be in Tofino, Vancouver Island, use the same currency and speak the same language and then travel 7,000 KM across to Cornerbrook, Newfoundland and still be able to use the same language and currency (except for 1000 KM in the middle where the darn Quebecois impose French on me ).

[Atithee]

French is a great language. Try to learn it. You’ll be richer for it. I did a 2-yr full diploma in French while at university during the last two years of my engineering degree. I’ve always felt enriched because of it. It also made picking up Spanish easier. I’m not fluent in either, but even a little goes a long way. I’d do the same if I lived in south India. In fact, l learned Bengali growing up in W Bengal for 2-3 years.

My point is—don’t see it as imposition. Think of it as a new skill set.

[jai_in_canada]

French is a great language. Try to learn it. You’ll be richer for it. I did a 2-yr full diploma in French while at university during the last two years of my engineering degree. I’ve always felt enriched because of it. It also made picking up Spanish easier. I’m not fluent in either, but even a little goes a long way. I’d do the same if I lived in south India. In fact, l learned Bengali growing up in W Bengal for 2-3 years.

My point is—don’t see it as imposition. Think of it as a new skill set.

I agree, Atithee. I was saying "imposition" tongue-in-cheek. My closest friend in Canada is French Canadian. I visit him often in Montreal. I try to speak in French in restaurants and stores in my broken French from my college days in India - and I find that it is much appreciated. La Belle Province is my favorite place in Canada, although I don't live there. One thing I find is that if you try to speak in French (even if it is broken or hesitant) the French people appreciate it very much. I can't say the same thing with English. I have seen over and over again someone for whom English is a second language trying to speak it to a native speaker in Canada, UK, US and be treated with contempt like they are some illiterate person.

[jayakris]

Yes, the discussion, as it does in so many other topics on this forum, meandered into diversity.

Thread title has been changed by the high-handed moderator. Feel free to meander now! - Mod, Jay