I got my Green Card!

[arjun2761]

A US green card is essentially an indefinite stay visa with permission to work. Provably, similar is some ways to an Indian OCI card. I believe it needs to be renewed every few years.

However, as we are learning, anyone powerful in the executive branch can cancel a green card or any other visa for any reason and there is very little recourse. The immigration appeals board also is under the control of the executive branch, so there isn’t much that they can do.

An art 3 judge may be the only one that can have some impact in saving a visa holder. however, when it comes to dealing with foreign nationals the executive branch likely has the authority to do whatever it pleases.

[prasen9]

The executive branch does not have the authority when the law is clear. However, this administration is a quasi-dictatorial executive branch. It does whatever it wants. Your recourse is in course but it will take years to fight that. If the customs agents at the border will not let you enter, what can you do but go back to India (or wherever you are coming from). That is the better option. German visa-holders were detained for three weeks and then deported. Then, from your country, you can fight in court to get your right to enter the country but it is going to be costly.

Basically, it is a might-is-right raj with scant adherence to laws, division of power, etc. Even if the courts say something, they do not control the guns and can't do anything much. After the criminals are gone, you can try to bring them to justice, but it is too slow a process.

[VReddy]

A US green card is essentially an indefinite stay visa with permission to work.

This is incorrect unless one continues to meet the condition of staying more than 6 months a year in USA.

Same case in Europe. Several cases in Switzerland every year where C Permits were disqualified due to spending more than 6 months abroad without seeking approval from local municipality

[PKBasu]

The executive branch does not have the authority when the law is clear. However, this administration is a quasi-dictatorial executive branch. It does whatever it wants. Your recourse is in course but it will take years to fight that. If the customs agents at the border will not let you enter, what can you do but go back to India (or wherever you are coming from). That is the better option. German visa-holders were detained for three weeks and then deported. Then, from your country, you can fight in court to get your right to enter the country but it is going to be costly.

Basically, it is a might-is-right raj with scant adherence to laws, division of power, etc. Even if the courts say something, they do not control the guns and can't do anything much. After the criminals are gone, you can try to bring them to justice, but it is too slow a process.

That is a pretty poor caricature of the situation. The Trump administration is simply implementing the rules regarding Permanent Residency more stringently than previous administrations. And also making it more difficult for jihadi terrorists -- and supporters of jihadism -- to stay in the US.

When entering any country, one has to have clear reasons to do so that accord with the visa status. If you circumvent the rules, you are liable to be barred from entry. For foreign students to be supporting a terrorist organisation like Hamas (which most Arab countries also define as a terrorist organisation) was utterly stupid. That it took this long for some of their visas to be cancelled is the real surprise. My experience of being a grad student in the US is that I barely had time for anything much beyond studying and working. Way too many "professional students" like 37 year old Rajani Srinivasan use their F1 student visas to become political activists (partly because their PhD or masters theses are thinly disguised tools for political activism). I'm glad they are being found and turfed out.

[prasen9]

That is a total distortion of reality. The Trump administration is going against demonstrators and political opponents. It is not going after terrorists. The fascists, Nazis and neo-nazis are welcome in this administration's views. It is a political operation. It is incompetent as shown by the Hegeseth message. It is just picking up foreigners and sending them back to El Salvador, etc. ignoring a judge's orders. There is perhaps no point arguing these facts in a world where people want to believe what they want to believe.

There are many students who are not doing quality work. Abusing the system to pick up some of them and randomly jailing them, etc. is jungle raj. In the U.S., we have freedom of speech. And, that includes supporting any political organization verbally. Only when you provide aid to terrorist organizations is it illegal. See: Material Support Bar Protestors are not providing material support.

By all means, kick out people who are violating the green card laws, I said so much above. Or students who are violating their academic duties/standards. I have no problem with that.

[prasen9]

I fully support removing the tribunal and all sorts of legal hurdles towards deactivating a green card. I would make the law simpler. If you are out of the U.S. for more than x days, then you lose your green card. Or more than x days in the last y years. You can petition a tribunal or court to reinstate your green card if you can show extraordinary circumstances. Not being present in the U.S. due to military deployment or job deployment, etc. will be excused. The IRS has reasonable rules about residency. Just adopt that. Or something similar. The idea that there is a condition that you have to satisfy (live in the U.S. for more of the year) but if you do not satisfy it, your card is not cancelled automatically, and it goes to some legal process is clogging up the legal system unnecessarily and creating these haggling scenarios at the border. Just simplify it and ask airlines not to board anyone whose green card has lapsed - make the info available to them - not too hard to do in this digital age. The system is just stupid now.

[jayakris]

My experience of being a grad student in the US is that I barely had time for anything much beyond studying and working. Way too many "professional students" like 37 year old Rajani Srinivasan use their F1 student visas to become political activists (partly because their PhD or masters theses are thinly disguised tools for political activism). I'm glad they are being found and turfed out.

Very much the case. There is too much of leftist bullshit done by such "professional students" from India. The whole ecosystem around programs like USAID and Fulbriht Fellowships was built up during successive Congress governments in India who seem to have fooled the US into spending money to get their chosen people to come to the US and go back as Congress' big shot "Harvard trained" mouth pieces in India. The system continued to produce people who were working against even the US policies of partnership with India, even during the 17 BJP years out of the last 27 years. Similarly, leftists and anti-Israel intelligentsia from other countries were being trained with US money. Some sort of a version of the "deep state" in academia that nobody really questioned for decades, in the US. A leftist engine that kept chugging away, that many anti-US countries and political outfits latched on to, for decades.

It was indeed time for somebody to take a look and shake up that academic system that was producing these Rajani Srinivasans who did not even think for a minute what the USA's policies were, when going out to support Hamas while in USA. People like them deserve to be sent away.

[prasen9]

So, are you saying that there is no freedom of speech to support people's political choices and we are pretty much the same as the dictatorships where you cannot speak out against the dictator's preferences?

From what you said, there are multiple problems in the system - that I agree. Just because someone went to Harvard or wherever, we must not pay attention to them. We should insist on what research they have done, etc. Any sort of cushy useless waste of money should be overseen and actions taken.

Extra-judicial actions taken ignoring congressional mandates is against the rule of law. Targeting people because of their political opinions is not desirable in any democracy especially if you are touting freedom of speech as something you value. I would say the same if a government targeted neo-nazis and put them in jail. The problem is not kicking out useless students. The problem is that they are being kicked out because of their political speech and remote assciations (friend of a friend of a friend is in Hamas, etc.) while nothing is done to the Neo Nazis or white supremacists.

If you want to root out fake scholars, root out fake scholars using objective criteria. Not only your political enemies. A lot more cleanup could be done that way with a lot more certainty and that could be longer lasting improvement to our educational systems.

[arjun2761]

^^^^Unclear if Prasen is referring to Prasen’s law which mostly exists only in Erewhon, but under US law the Supreme Court has affirmed that foreigners have first amendment rights to free speech and cannot be criminally prosecuted for their free speech. However, US law has also made clear that visas are privileges which can be cancelled by the executive branch under the political reasons doctrine for which it gives Executive branch a lot of discretion in determining what those political reasons could be such as national security or impacting foreign policy etc.

[jayakris]

So, are you saying that there is no freedom of speech to support people's political choices and we are pretty much the same as the dictatorships where you cannot speak out against the dictator's preferences?

No, as a U.S. citizen you should have a right to speak out against your Government's policies. But as a foreign citizen in the U.S., I don't think one has a right to be an activist and raise one's voice against the U.S. Govt policies. Especially if you are in the U.S. on a fellowship paid even partially by the U.S. Government. That would be the law in most countries. Maybe the U.S. law is more liberal than that and gives rights to visiting students too, but even in that case, one has to be moral and ethical and not take part in activism against the Govt policies. That is why I said the Rajani Srinivasans deserve whatever came their way from the US Government.

I would agree that you should ask your Government to follow what the U.S. constitution says, and use objective criteria as well as a well-studied process to select whom to deport and all that. Haphazard actions that follow simplistic whims of a few people can have disastrous consequences, and you citizens should ask questions. Go ahead!

[rajitghosh]

^^^^Unclear if Prasen is referring to Prasen’s law which mostly exists only in Erewhon, but under US law the Supreme Court has affirmed that foreigners have first amendment rights to free speech and cannot be criminally prosecuted for their free speech. However, US law has also made clear that visas are privileges which can be cancelled by the executive branch under the political reasons doctrine for which it gives Executive branch a lot of discretion in determining what those political reasons could be such as national security or impacting foreign policy etc.

Erewhon- a consulting firm by this name actually exists. But it is a good semordnilap.

[jayakris]

^^^ Actually not a consulting firm, but a natural foods grocery chain with a few shops in the L.A. area. Started by a hippie Japanese couple in the 60s, I believe.

[rajitghosh]

https://www.erehwonconsulting.com/

[jayakris]

I guess nowhere is everywhere!

[Atithee]

Reminds me of—nobody is perfect. I’m nobody!