Champions Challenge 1 2011 Men, Johannesburg (South Africa)

[Ankit Desai]

Which Chandi? This Chandi or that Chandi?

Neither of above but this -> Gurvinder Singh Chandi.

-Ankit

[jayakris]

Not sure what prasen is referring to ...

That is 6 PCs in the last 9 goals to win two matches. Looks like Nobbs' plan to allow Indians to play in "Indian style" is not resulting in FGs. No complaints, as long as we earn PCs and score.

Now it seems that our pool was certainly the stronger one, as our bottom two from our pool won their QFs and the top two won their SFs. Repeat against Belgium. After being behind and in trouble twice in a row, and having scored 12 goals in a row before that etc, our team is pretty used to everything. I hope we will not be tight in the final. Belgium seems well-coached and as per FIH they are trying to "finish a stupendous year" .... I give it a 55-45 chance for us to win the final.

Jay

[kaustav]

3 months back when Sardara and sandep suspended for being attended a private function in between national camp I said that India desperartely need THESE TWO...Few frnds objected ( May be Prasen and few more)..No They thought about Sardara but felt Sandeep was nor good enough to be missed by the team ...Now where are you guys? Sardara was outstanding no doubt...Marshaling the entire midfield like a leader and an absolutely out of the book of classical hockey...BUT whtas about Sandeep 6 PC conversion so far..Today bot the PCS were lethal...mind blowing PC conversion from the man...One shot from the right of the keeper..and second one is no words..unstoppable over left corner drag flick....WHERE ARE YOU GUYS

[kaustav]

Malaysia is the same team which defeated India in Asian games and we could not qualify for olympic. Situation was same but Malaysia came out winner, this time we. If we look at last 10 years record when did India comfortably defeat Malaysia and how many times?
I think with Indian Hockey fraternity, we as Hockey fan should come out of 8 Hockey Olympic golds hang out and accept reality that we are Rank #10 in World in Men section.
-Ankit

Nope I dont agree...I think we are in around in between 5 and 8...After Aussies,Germany,Holland,Spain.. anjd almost at par with Pakistan/Argentina/GBR/Korea...Better than New Zealand, Belgiam,South Africa etc etc...

[jayakris]

I agree with you about the 5-to-8 thing (may be 6 to 9). Last week, i would have said that we had fallen closer to 8 to 10 while we had the players to be even 5 with the right coaching. I am suddenly a bit upbeat about Nobbs. Not because of anything I am seeing on the field but just seeing the final scores. If we are winning, well, we are winning! May be we are back closer to 6 or 7 now. If we make it to champions, yes, I would say we are 6 in the world. Moving to 4th is a huge mountain, however.

As for Sandeep, I had felt that he had a tendency earlier to not come through under pressure and while trailing, in his PC conversions. Lately, that seems to have improved. He just seems more mellow and reasonable as a guy too, to me. Used to put him on par with totally unprofressional guys like Gagan, Prabhjot etc earlier, but I no longer do that. Sandeep is still a slow defender but I would rather have him there and taking the PC for us, for sure. He is one of the best in the world at that.

Jay

[prasen9]

Not sure what prasen is referring to ...

I'm not either. Half of what I say should not be interpreted too strictly but what others say must be. Ankit had mentioned "that Chandi". So, I inferred that there was a "this Chandi" and to differentiate the Chandis he used "that". Which then begs the question, "this Chandi" or "that Chandi". Ankit graciously explained. I hope all of this and that is as clear
as mud.

[prasen9]

3 months back when Sardara and sandep suspended for being attended a private function in between national camp I said that India desperartely need THESE TWO...Few frnds objected ( May be Prasen and few more)..No They thought about Sardara but felt Sandeep was nor good enough to be missed by the team ...Now where are you guys? Sardara was outstanding no doubt...Marshaling the entire midfield like a leader and an absolutely out of the book of classical hockey...BUT whtas about Sandeep 6 PC conversion so far..Today bot the PCS were lethal...mind blowing PC conversion from the man...One shot from the right of the keeper..and second one is no words..unstoppable over left corner drag flick....WHERE ARE YOU GUYS

Right here! Sardara is my favorite player. Was my favorite player before he got suspended. Is after. Search the forum for my posts and you will see. I have always wanted him to play defense because I want a solid defense. But, no player is above discipline. If my daughter got suspended due to indiscipline and the allegations are true, I will not try to get her in. There will be ups and downs. A win here is meaningless to me. At the end of the day, anything short of a medal in a major tournament is meaningless to me in hockey. I objected to their reinstatement if Nobbs did not want them. In the long run, if you let indiscipline come in, then India will not do well. No team that is not disciplined has ever done well. I stand by that. I had not commented as much to say that Sandeep is washed up or bad. He is okay. He blows hot and cold. So, he had his hot days. Fine. I never said that he will never do well or that there is someone better than him in India. For me, it is clearly black and white. Even if you are God, if you don't go by the team rules, you will be suspended. The same with the Satan.

[kaustav]

BUT whtas about Sandeep 6 PC conversion so far..Today bot the PCS were lethal...mind blowing PC conversion from the man...One shot from the right of the keeper..and second one is no words..unstoppable over left corner drag flick....WHERE ARE YOU GUYS

Right here! Sardara is my favorite player. Was my favorite player before he got suspended. Is after. Search the forum for my posts and you will see. I have always wanted him to play defense because I want a solid defense. But, no player is above discipline. If my daughter got suspended due to indiscipline and the allegations are true, I will not try to get her in. There will be ups and downs. A win here is meaningless to me. At the end of the day, anything short of a medal in a major tournament is meaningless to me in hockey. I objected to their reinstatement if Nobbs did not want them. In the long run, if you let indiscipline come in, then India will not do well. No team that is not disciplined has ever done well. I stand by that. I had not commented as much to say that Sandeep is washed up or bad. He is okay. He blows hot and cold. So, he had his hot days. Fine. I never said that he will never do well or that there is someone better than him in India. For me, it is clearly black and white. Even if you are God, if you don't go by the team rules, you will be suspended. The same with the Satan.

Well well well...No question about Sardara as your fav player...You have the right for that...And about indicipine same applied to everybody in the team..here too no probs with you...My point was you have written that Sandeep will not be missed...Man may be not today but one day you will have to eat your word..and hopefully that day will be such golden day of our hockey that you would be pleased to do that...I am waiting for the day and I will be alive in this forum

Sandeep is a genuine match winner and if he can cool himself down like Jay said which he has already shown some maturity ...we just never what he can do in future...he is not only the best in india but I am 100% sure he is in the top 3 in the world in his segment...What a drag flicker India have...And in vital matches 2 against South Africa in group stages...2 against Malyasians...and today unbelivable flicks from the man...

[ssp]

I have been critical of Sandeep's defending and general slowness. He has scored vital goals here for sure, but has cost us a couple with his lack of speed and poor tackling. He can be lethal with his drag-flicks, but has a history of not delivering in crucial matches. I hope he proves me wrong tomorrow and for many matches and tournaments in the future. I will gladly accept that I got it wrong on Sandeep if he wins us a medal in the future.

I would not play him in defence, but move him into midfield- maybe to right half and play quicker, more skilled defenders at the back.

Ragunath too looks slow and is beaten rather too easily. Didn't get to see much of Rupinder Pal or Manjeet Kullu. Until we have a crop of really good defenders, our results will continue to be erratic. Good wins will be followed by a really rubbish performance.

Sardara is the best Indian player since Pillay. Problem is we are only producing one world class player per generation! Just imagine if we had 3 players of Sardara's class. We would easily be competitive against the likes of Spain and Germany. Australia and Holland look really good at the moment. We are miles behind that sort of level. I prefer Sardara in midfield because he can pass the ball brilliantly, he can carry it or tackle. He has speed and is physically strong. If he plays as a sweeper, the midfield is usually redundant as we resort to long hopeful hits upfield.

[kaustav]

I agree with you about the 5-to-8 thing (may be 6 to 9). Last week, i would have said that we had fallen closer to 8 to 10 while we had the players to be even 5 with the right coaching. I am suddenly a bit upbeat about Nobbs. Not because of anything I am seeing on the field but just seeing the final scores. If we are winning, well, we are winning! May be we are back closer to 6 or 7 now. If we make it to champions, yes, I would say we are 6 in the world. Moving to 4th is a huge mountain, however.

As for Sandeep, I had felt that he had a tendency earlier to not come through under pressure and while trailing, in his PC conversions. Lately, that seems to have improved. He just seems more mellow and reasonable as a guy too, to me. Used to put him on par with totally unprofressional guys like Gagan, Prabhjot etc earlier, but I no longer do that. Sandeep is still a slow defender but I would rather have him there and taking the PC for us, for sure. He is one of the best in the world at that.

Yess Jay if we could beat Belgiam with a hockey what we did display today in the second half...Definately we are in the top 6...As far as sandeep goes I never had any doubt with this man...He is one of the best in the business and India need him desparetly to continue the good work...Take my words that Sandeep would be hard to stop even by the big teams ( Aussies/Germans/Dutch) in the near future...

[jayakris]

The highligts of the India-RSA match is at the FIH site - http://www.fih.ch/en/competitions-146-f ... -champions

Raghunath scored the PC to tie it at 1-1 and Sardar scored the goal to even it. Defense seemed to just go to sleep on the two goals from RSA. The elementary mistakes like taking the wrong angle and letting a guy blow past you in the mid-field is hard to watch. But then the two Sandeep PCs which were high to the left and high to the right - impossible to stop. Chhettri had two good saves with 9 minutes left on an FG and with 5 minutes left on a PC to preserve the win.

It is funny how this announcer can never get the name Raghunath right. Every now and then in the past games he was saying "Raganooth" and now he is into saying "RRRRagunath" with the Mexican "buRRRRito" sound ...

Jay

[kaustav]

I have been critical of Sandeep's defending and general slowness. He has scored vital goals here for sure, but has cost us a couple with his lack of speed and poor tackling. He can be lethal with his drag-flicks, but has a history of not delivering in crucial matches. I hope he proves me wrong tomorrow and for many matches and tournaments in the future. I will gladly accept that I got it wrong on Sandeep if he wins us a medal in the future.

I would not play him in defence, but move him into midfield- maybe to right half and play quicker, more skilled defenders at the back.

Ragunath too looks slow and is beaten rather too easily. Didn't get to see much of Rupinder Pal or Manjeet Kullu. Until we have a crop of really good defenders, our results will continue to be erratic. Good wins will be followed by a really rubbish performance.

Sardara is the best Indian player since Pillay. Problem is we are only producing one world class player per generation! Just imagine if we had 3 players of Sardara's class. We would easily be competitive against the likes of Spain and Germany. Australia and Holland look really good at the moment. We are miles behind that sort of level. I prefer Sardara in midfield because he can pass the ball brilliantly, he can carry it or tackle. He has speed and is physically strong. If he plays as a sweeper, the midfield is usually redundant as we resort to long hopeful hits upfield.

I agree with you critical review of the Sandeep tackling and moving him in the midfield...The defence is really poor but I though Raghunath is faster than Sandeep...Sardara is outstanding no doubt...But Sandeep would prove you wrong about delivering in crucial matches..I dont know about tomorrow but india will have plenty of BIG MATCHES coming up within 6 months span and we'll see to it....

[jayakris]

Didn't get to see much of Rupinder Pal or Manjeet Kullu. Until we have a crop of really good defenders, our results will continue to be erratic.

Wasn't it Rupinder Pal who got badly injured (right ankle or knee) in the last game? I think so -- he was stretchered out. Showed him sitting with ice-packed leg up later. Jay

[prasen9]

Kaustav, I do not remember saying Sandeep will not be missed. I am sort of apathetical to him. Don't love him, don't hate him. But, I may have said that. ssp hit the point. I do not doubt Sandeep's drag flick prowess. His being a liability in the defense is the problem. If he is moved to the midfield and if he plays well, then I will start loving him more. Listen, if I criticize any player and that player makes me look like a fool, I will be glad. At the end of the day, I care that India wins and not whether I was right or wrong. I have a big ego, but, I don't care about my reputation here. At work, of course, it is different.

[kaustav]

Kaustav, Listen, if I criticize any player and that player makes me look like a fool, I will be glad. At the end of the day, I care that India wins and not whether I was right or wrong. I have a big ego, but, I don't care about my reputation here. At work, of course, it is different.

Good to hear that Prasen...Bongs like me having big egos..same with you perhaps