All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

RohitG wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:19 pm Thanks Sameer. Things are looking good in recent times, just hoping that the we have some new players to step up after Sumit and Sasi. So far not many names come up. Lot of Indian origin kids tho, but we don't have the same mechanisms to have them represent us, the way Japan has for Naomi Osaka and Taro Daniel for eg.
True, we need to have steady stream of players coming up to keep this good period going. 22 year olds Sumit and Mukund can keep going for long but we need more players to join them. Next best as of now appears to be 20 year old Manish Sureshkumar, then 19 year olds Adil Kalyanpur and Siddhanth Banthia and 17 year old Terrence Das. But, all of those young ones seem to have stagnated in last 1 year. They have time on their hand though and hope a couple of them can go upto the level of Sumit-Mukund.

Who are the good ones from Indian origin ones ? None that I remember as exciting as Sumit.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by RohitG »

Yeah not as exciting as Sumit but I feel they will get better support from their overall ecosystem to transition better into the pros. Govind Nanda, Keshav Chopra, Adit Sinha for eg.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

Yes, Govind Nanda is ranked 16 in ATP rankings for those below 19 years and won 2 25K futures in US this year which is not easy. So, he is probably heading towards top 200 eventually.

Others appear average as of now.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

Challenger singles titles by Indians-

Leander Paes 11
Yuki Bhambri 7
Somdev Devvarman 5
Ramesh Krishnan 4
Sumit Nagal 3
Vijay Amritraj 2
Saketh Myneni 2
Prajnesh Guneswaran 2
Mahesh Bhupathi 1
Harsh Mankad 1
Rohan Bopanna 1
Sashi Menon 1
Ramkumar Ramanathan 1

Total of 41 titles.

Breaking it down yearwise since 2001-
2023- 1 so far ( Sumit)
2021- 1 (RamK)
2019- 1 ( Sumit)
2018- 3 ( Prajnesh 2, Yuki 1)
2017- 2 ( Yuki 1, Sumit 1)
2015- 5 ( Yuki 2, Somdev 2, Saketh 1)
2014- 3 ( Yuki 1,Somdev 1, Saketh 1)
2013 - 1 (Yuki)
2012- 1 (Yuki)
2010- 1 ( Somdev)
2008- 1 ( Somdev)
2007- 1 ( Rohan Bopanna)
2006- 1 (Harsh Mankad)

2014 to 2018 was most productive period. After 2019 we have slowed down. Now I will be surprised if anyone other than Sumit wins a challenger title in next 2-3 years.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by Atithee »

Can you please also add a home/away filter to this list, Sameer? Thanks in advance.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

Done. Also bifurcate the away titles by continent.

Challenger singles titles by Indians-

Leander Paes 11 - 6 home, 5 away ( 2 in Asia, 1 Africa, 1 US, 1 South America)
Yuki Bhambri 7 - 3 home, 4 away ( 3 in Asia, 1 in Australia)
Somdev Devvarman 5 - 2 home, 3 away ( 2 in US, 1 in Europe)
Ramesh Krishnan 4 - all away ( 3 in Asia, 1 in US)
Sumit Nagal 3 - 1 home, 2 away ( 1 in Europe, 1 in South America)
Vijay Amritraj 2 - No details available
Saketh Myneni 2 - 1 home, 1 away ( Asia)
Prajnesh Guneswaran 2 - 1 home, 1 away (Asia)
Mahesh Bhupathi 1 - Away (Asia)
Harsh Mankad 1 - Away (Europe)
Rohan Bopanna 1- Away (Europe)
Sashi Menon 1 - No details available
Ramkumar Ramanathan 1 - Away (Asia)

Total - 14 home, 24 away ( no details available for 3)

No details are available for 2 titles won by Vijay Amriraj and 1 by Sashi Menon. ( if anyone has it please update it, else will remove it, it was taken from earlier list updated by someone else).

So, out of 38 titles won for which details are available, 14 are home and 24 abroad which is a good proportion but that is natural as number of tournaments held in India are very few.

But, out of those 24 title outside India, 12 are in Asia where competition level is supposed to be comparatively lower. Only 4 are in Europe of of which those by Somdev and Rohan were on hard courts and Harsh on grass court. Only 1 by Sumit yesterday on clay courts.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by PKBasu »

One of Vijay's Challenger titles was in New Haven, Ct, where he beat Zeeshan Ali in the final (1988) -- after beating Malivai Washington in the SF and Todd Woodbridge in R2.

The other was in Spring, TX in 1984, where he beat #57 Nduka Odizor in the SF and Leif Shiras in the final.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by PKBasu »

Sashi Menon won a Challenger at Tinton Falls, NJ, in September 1978, where he beat John Sadri (USA, 90; CH 14) in the final. The following tournament, ATP Mexico, Sashi lost to Vijay in the semifinals.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

Great, so updated list-

Challenger singles titles by Indians-

Leander Paes 11 - 6 home, 5 away ( 2 in Asia, 1 Africa, 1 US, 1 South America)
Yuki Bhambri 7 - 3 home, 4 away ( 3 in Asia, 1 in Australia)
Somdev Devvarman 5 - 2 home, 3 away ( 2 in US, 1 in Europe)
Ramesh Krishnan 4 - all away ( 3 in Asia, 1 in US)
Sumit Nagal 3 - 1 home, 2 away ( 1 in Europe, 1 in South America)
Vijay Amritraj 2 - Away ( both in US)
Saketh Myneni 2 - 1 home, 1 away ( Asia)
Prajnesh Guneswaran 2 - 1 home, 1 away (Asia)
Mahesh Bhupathi 1 - Away (Asia)
Harsh Mankad 1 - Away (Europe)
Rohan Bopanna 1- Away (Europe)
Sashi Menon 1 - Away (US)
Ramkumar Ramanathan 1 - Away (Asia)

Total - 14 home, 27 away ( 12 in Asia, 7 in US, 4 in Europe, 2 in South America, 1 in Africa, 1 in Australia) - Total 41 titles

5 titles on grass ( 4 Leander, 1 Harsh Mankad), 3 on clay ( 2 Sumit, 1 Prajnesh), all others on hard courts.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by PKBasu »

Frankly, we should not be too proud of Challenger title 'records' -- which are really a record of futility in successfully taking the next vital professional step of regularly playing (and hence occasionally winning) full ATP tournaments. Vijay, Ramesh and Sashi rarely played Challengers, because they had successfully made that transition. Similarly, to a limited extent, Somdev -- the last of our male singles players who was able to last more than a full year as an ATP tournament regular.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by prasen9 »

The way to look at this wold be to find how many challenger events each player played and normalize it to something like success-rate. But, of course, that is a lot of work. However, winning more than 3-4 challengers should mean that that person will move towards the ATP tour especially if this is done in a small period. Which is another thing we could do to normalize this - what is the first and last year some of these people won these challengers. That would show how sparse their wins are. Someone who wins a few in a couple of years would be a good player moving up. Someone winning 2-3 in 10 years means journeyman unless again these are over the first 1-2 years and the last 1-2 years of a waning career which had ATP tours in between.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by Atithee »

Thanks for adding the painstaking details to both Sameer and PKB.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by jayakris »

This is a rare data resource. Of the kind that you will find only here on sports-india! Thanks PKB and Sameer.

The one thing that strikes me is that Harsh Mankad is the only one to win a grass challenger outside India, other than LP. I would have thought somebody or other among all the grass players we had, would have done it. But challengers really became a thing only in the 80s and grass was beginning to die. LP was a rare breed (and so was MB, but he never won a grass challenger though he looked great in Wimbledon qualies a couple of times and in Davis Cup). That RK never won a grass challenger is mind-boggling; but he didn't play a whole heck of a lot of challengers. Harsh was not known as a grass player at all but had that incredible week in Manchester in 2006.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by sameerph »

Yes, still remember that week when we had I think Samarth giving live updates from site as there were no live scores those days forget about live stream.

Yes, surprised even Bops or Prakash Amritraj or or in recent times RamK have never won a grass challenger although they have done well in Grass ATP tournaments.
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Re: All time INDIAN CHALLENGER WINS

Post by Rajiv »

jayakris wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 1:30 pm That RK never won a grass challenger is mind-boggling; but he didn't play a whole heck of a lot of challengers.
Not correct Jay... RK does have a Challenger Grass court challenger title to his name.

Today as a pre wimbledon warm up in the UK we have Stella Artois , Eastbourne plus the 3 Challengers

In the 80's there were only these 2 ATP's (Stella Artois Queens & Eastbourne)and a solitary Challenger played on a Cricket field in Beckenham Kent as a Wimbledon warm up.

In 1986 Ramesh beat the South African Dannie Visser to take the title, don't remember the score, but clearly remember it was a hard fought win in 3 sets and heard Paddy Feeny on BBC Saturday special, minutes after the victory eulogising Ramesh's win ,and discussing with the onsite BBC reporter's Linda Spur & Simon Reed how he fondly rembered the Sr Ramanthan as well and how striking was the similarly in the father and son's game.

This Grass Court Challenger held on a Kent Cricket field in Beckenham was popular even amongst the top rung and remember ,McEnroe and Lendl winning few years later after Ramesh won the 86 crown.
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