You forget what India kept doing, by never supporting the US in *anything* for ever. Americans have always shown that they would play ball with *anybody* if they are willing to deal with stark realities of the world, not what the "idealist aspersions" of the country are. India kept going to Russia because there were enough idealists in India who couldn't see which country was treating even its own people right. USA was going to put strings on India, which was something very unpatable for us then, and so I can understand our behavior till even around 1980. Even then, when India was pretty close to starving to death in the 60s, there was only US who came to our help. Our green revolution was also thanks to some US help. USA has got none, nada, zilch, except badmouthing at the UN from India. The reason why US went to Pakistan again after 9/11 is plain and simple. They knew, like they have known from 1947 onwards that Indians are anachronisms who can't handle the wheeling and dealing needed with the USA. Pakistan was much easier to deal with. Still I believe there was a 2-day period or so when USA gave Musharaff an ultimatum to come through after 9/11 with a veiled threat that they would approach India otherwise (which would have been utter foolishness for the USA, because, face it, India is the least trustworthy ally, for ANYBODY in the world. Sorry, that is a fact that the world knows. They know that in any matter, we might just turn "righteous" and not be with them. It is from the nature of our system mixed with our arrogance about ourselves).sandeep wrote:USA would have anyways done that if they wanted to, with or without the plebiscite. Who would have objected them? I still don't understand USA's funding to a terrorist nation just to gain an entry into Afghanistan. India should have been USA's natural friend in the war against terrorism especially in this region, but USA didn't even bother to approach us for any kind of help! In any case why should we allow US army into our country?jayakris wrote:This larger kashmir will have a direct border with Afghanistan, and USA will find Pakistan as unnecessary for their plans.
The Indians having your attitude is the FIRST problem. Right or wrong is not the issue here. It was right in 1947, but we made sure of alienating everybody in Kashmir (including the poor Pandits who were ethnically cleansed), by speaking of our "right" thanks to a piece of paper that a King signed and gave to VP Menon, pretty clearly under duress, and vehemently suspected for date-veracity etc by many. Still it was a useful piece of paper, if we were smart to utilize it. The first point was to make sure that the people of Kashmir were with us. If we couldn't do that, then our "right" was lost long back. We did have paper rights, which we chose not to properly use, by simply saying meaningless phrases like "Kashmir and integral part of India" when large areas of what we draw in a map are land where no Indian official has set foot in decades. All that it all did was to further alienate the people. Not to mention the utter lie perpetrated on Iother Indian citizens who have to see the silly map constantly. I am sorry, but if the people are alientaed, then you have to let that place go, or simply get smart and show the people that they are better off being with us. The latter is what I suggested.sandeep wrote:Jay, why should there be a plebiscite. India acted perfectly during the partition, in fact we didn't even ask for Kashmir till it was given to us. We have waited for the king to give his opinion and only after the Britishers acknowledged it, we moved into Kashmir. And ever since we have been protecting it from Pakistanis. Pakistanis have no right on Kashmir whatsoever.jayakris wrote:If you want a solution, I had given my version above... Do a plebiscite after a 10 year period. Not that anybody would have the guts for that.
Again the same useless rhetoric of whether US has a right or not. If we want their help, we do what is needed. Yes, we do need their help, because we have proven to be a complete failure in doing anything about Kashmir. Because Kashmir is never coming back to India unless USA chooses to screw Pakistan - which they may well do if we play ball. Even then, I am not convinced if USA can manage to solve the problem, because China will show their muscle for sure. They cannot afford to have US and India get together at that level.sandeep wrote:They have made a peaceful state into a bloody war. The only solution is war in that region, but can the UN keep quite just like the way they did when USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? In this double standard world, I don't think there is any solution for Pakistan till we become a super super power way more than USA and dictate terms to the world!
So, USA has no right to interfere in our border conflict or use it to deny us a seat in UN security council till they whole heartedly believes that we were and are right when it comes to Kashmir and give us freehand to solve the problem even if it means a war.
Jay