ok, how about 'myself' and 'I'? Do these both mean the same or should they be used according to the situation. Hardly Americans use 'myself' while not many Indians use 'I'. Which is correct?
Is "Jay and myself went to see Sania’s match' correct?
Know your English
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BSharma
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Re: Know your English
Sandeep wrote:
e.g., "I saw Sania hit a fantastic forehand myself." "I wrote Sania's biography by myself."
Myself does not replace "I" or "me" in a sentence, but it can be used if you have already used "I" in a sentence.ok, how about 'myself' and 'I'? Do these both mean the same or should they be used according to the situation. Hardly Americans use 'myself' while not many Indians use 'I'. Which is correct?
e.g., "I saw Sania hit a fantastic forehand myself." "I wrote Sania's biography by myself."
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BSharma
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Re: Know your English
guest wrote:
When a verb is used in a hypothetical situation or in the subjunctive mood then "were" can be used in singular form. Hence the use of "were" in "If I were the President of USA" is correct. Bill Clinton were the President of USA is wrong.Similar is the use of was vs. were (If I was the president of US vs. If I were the president of the US) and many others.
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jayakris
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Re: Know your English
.. Then there was the famous George Bush Sr line during the 2002 election - "Who do you trust?" .. Promptly corrected by some democrat as, "WHOM do you trust, Mr. president!" .. That usage is still there.
I am often amused at the standard end-of-game cheer taught in the American youth leagues -- "2, 4, 6, 8 .. Who do you appreciate .. Mighty frogs!!" .. Nobody ever thinks of the mistake in there ..
Jay
I am often amused at the standard end-of-game cheer taught in the American youth leagues -- "2, 4, 6, 8 .. Who do you appreciate .. Mighty frogs!!" .. Nobody ever thinks of the mistake in there ..
Jay
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BSharma
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Re: Know your English
Jay has raised another of the mix-up combo words in the English language.
Rules for using "who" and "whom":
"Who" is the subject pronoun and "whom" is the object pronoun of the word.
For example,
Question: Who has the most ferocious forehand in tennis?
Answer: Sania Mirza.
The word "who" refers to Sania and is the subject pronoun, hence it is the correct use of the word.
Question: Sania learned her ferocious forehand from whom?
Answer: Bhushan.
The word "whom" is the object pronoun for Bhushan and is the correct use of the word
although it happens to be the wrong answer. 
Now take another example,
Who is Kumar staring at these days?
The correct grammatical way of writing the sentence should be "Whom is Kumar staring at these days?" since "whom" is the object of the preposition "at", but I don't want to be caught dead using "whom" in this sentence or revealing the answer to the question.
"Whom" is rarely used by people as the first word in the sentence these days. The Democrats were right, but so was the former President. The same goes for the "2, 4, 6, 8..." The correct grammar is "whom", but American English has twisted it to "who".
Rules for using "who" and "whom":
"Who" is the subject pronoun and "whom" is the object pronoun of the word.
For example,
Question: Who has the most ferocious forehand in tennis?
Answer: Sania Mirza.
The word "who" refers to Sania and is the subject pronoun, hence it is the correct use of the word.
Question: Sania learned her ferocious forehand from whom?
Answer: Bhushan.
The word "whom" is the object pronoun for Bhushan and is the correct use of the word
although it happens to be the wrong answer. Now take another example,
Who is Kumar staring at these days?
The correct grammatical way of writing the sentence should be "Whom is Kumar staring at these days?" since "whom" is the object of the preposition "at", but I don't want to be caught dead using "whom" in this sentence or revealing the answer to the question.
"Whom" is rarely used by people as the first word in the sentence these days. The Democrats were right, but so was the former President. The same goes for the "2, 4, 6, 8..." The correct grammar is "whom", but American English has twisted it to "who".
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BSharma
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Re: Know your English
My secretary at the office has been e-mailing me stuff to improve my written and oral communications skills. 
I wonder what else she has noticed are my weaknesses. Read and enjoy, and I wish she had provided the link to the article so that I did not have to post the entire article.
It is absolutely and positively essential and it is true beyond any possible shadow of a doubt and I would like to take a few minutes to assert that many of us including some moderators, old members, new members, male members, female members, etc., etc., and let me reiterate here that it’s only my opinion, but it seems to me although it is indeed an honor and a privilege to say what I’m trying to get at is that we go absolutely bonkers when we express our opinions about Sania’s game and what she should do to improve it.
Bhushan
******************************************************************
Clean the Wax from Your Words
Using Effective Language for Public Speaking
In ancient days, Roman sculptors sometimes sought to conceal surface cracks in a statue with the aid of melted beeswax. A buyer, deceived into believing that he was purchasing a flawless piece of marble, would place such a statue proudly in his atrium. A few weeks later the beeswax would dry out, crumble away, and leave the original cracks exposed. This trickery became so prevalent, reputable sculptors began to guarantee their works as sine cera — which means, in Latin, without wax.
Our present word sincere we owe to a rebellion against wax — against deception, obfuscation, and fraud.
Beware of the Use of Word Wax
You are not in the business of carving statues out of marble. But you do something similar. You carve communication out of words. Beeswax tricked the ancient Romans. But word wax never tricked anybody. It is instantly recognized and thoroughly despised by all listeners. Word wax my be defined as any phrase, any group of words, which is not an integral part of the thought you seek to express.
Superlatives are wax.
“This is absolutely and positively essential!” Eliminate the word wax and what remains is not less, but more forceful. “This is essential!”
“This is true beyond any possible shadow of a doubt!” If you wish to strengthen the simple assertion. “This is true!”, do so by pouring concrete examples to support it, not wax to fill the cracks.
Trite expression are wax.
“As you can see,” “if you will,” “in conclusion,” “it is indeed an honor and a privilege,” “I would like to take a few minutes,” “Each and every one,” “throughout the length and breadth of the land,” “next slide please,” and assorted other inert phrases are deadly to communication.
When any of these stale phrases assail the ears of listeners, a thumbs-down reaction is instant. Word wax.
Groping expressions are wax.
“What I'm trying to get as is ...,” “What I want to say is ...” If you want to get at something, then get at it! If you want to say something, say it!
Your failure to express your idea clearly the first time is not helped by word wax. Try a concrete example instead.
Repetitious expressions are wax.“As I said before,” “and so I again repeat,” “let me reiterate here...” If you wish to gain the emphasis which comes from restatement — as you do in the opening and close of a conference comment — go ahead and restate. But omit the waxy “as I said before.”
“And so forth” expressions are wax.
“America has produced such inventors as Fulton, Edison, the Wright brothers — and so forth and so on.” “Our marketing recommendations are now based on research, data, statistical analysis, etc., etc."”
When you list items in series, stop cleanly with your last item. “And so forth” expressions usually get interpreted as wax calculated to make others believe you know more than you do. Such expressions have the same value as the obnoxious phrase, “I could go on this way for hours.”
Weasel words are wax.“Of course, it's only my opinion, but ... .” “It seems to me ... .” Of course it's your opinion! That's why you're expressing it.
Naturally “it seems” to you, or you wouldn't be saying it. “More or less...to a greater or less degree...or something like that...” Punch-pulling phrases fuzz the crispness of a thought.
They are just as obnoxious as the superlatives at the opposite extreme.
Avoid word wax.
She who cleans her speech of waxy substance creates a lasting impression of intelligence, directness, and professionalism. Be sincere. Carve your communications without wax: you may rate a marble statue in the end.
(Based on Public Speaking As Listeners Like It, by Richard C. Borden, Harper Collins, 10 East 53rd Street, NY, NY 10022.)
Reprinted from PS for Business Communicators®, ECG's client newsletter.
I wonder what else she has noticed are my weaknesses. Read and enjoy, and I wish she had provided the link to the article so that I did not have to post the entire article.It is absolutely and positively essential and it is true beyond any possible shadow of a doubt and I would like to take a few minutes to assert that many of us including some moderators, old members, new members, male members, female members, etc., etc., and let me reiterate here that it’s only my opinion, but it seems to me although it is indeed an honor and a privilege to say what I’m trying to get at is that we go absolutely bonkers when we express our opinions about Sania’s game and what she should do to improve it.
Bhushan
******************************************************************
Clean the Wax from Your Words
Using Effective Language for Public Speaking
In ancient days, Roman sculptors sometimes sought to conceal surface cracks in a statue with the aid of melted beeswax. A buyer, deceived into believing that he was purchasing a flawless piece of marble, would place such a statue proudly in his atrium. A few weeks later the beeswax would dry out, crumble away, and leave the original cracks exposed. This trickery became so prevalent, reputable sculptors began to guarantee their works as sine cera — which means, in Latin, without wax.
Our present word sincere we owe to a rebellion against wax — against deception, obfuscation, and fraud.
Beware of the Use of Word Wax
You are not in the business of carving statues out of marble. But you do something similar. You carve communication out of words. Beeswax tricked the ancient Romans. But word wax never tricked anybody. It is instantly recognized and thoroughly despised by all listeners. Word wax my be defined as any phrase, any group of words, which is not an integral part of the thought you seek to express.
Superlatives are wax.
“This is absolutely and positively essential!” Eliminate the word wax and what remains is not less, but more forceful. “This is essential!”
“This is true beyond any possible shadow of a doubt!” If you wish to strengthen the simple assertion. “This is true!”, do so by pouring concrete examples to support it, not wax to fill the cracks.
Trite expression are wax.
“As you can see,” “if you will,” “in conclusion,” “it is indeed an honor and a privilege,” “I would like to take a few minutes,” “Each and every one,” “throughout the length and breadth of the land,” “next slide please,” and assorted other inert phrases are deadly to communication.
When any of these stale phrases assail the ears of listeners, a thumbs-down reaction is instant. Word wax.
Groping expressions are wax.
“What I'm trying to get as is ...,” “What I want to say is ...” If you want to get at something, then get at it! If you want to say something, say it!
Your failure to express your idea clearly the first time is not helped by word wax. Try a concrete example instead.
Repetitious expressions are wax.“As I said before,” “and so I again repeat,” “let me reiterate here...” If you wish to gain the emphasis which comes from restatement — as you do in the opening and close of a conference comment — go ahead and restate. But omit the waxy “as I said before.”
“And so forth” expressions are wax.
“America has produced such inventors as Fulton, Edison, the Wright brothers — and so forth and so on.” “Our marketing recommendations are now based on research, data, statistical analysis, etc., etc."”
When you list items in series, stop cleanly with your last item. “And so forth” expressions usually get interpreted as wax calculated to make others believe you know more than you do. Such expressions have the same value as the obnoxious phrase, “I could go on this way for hours.”
Weasel words are wax.“Of course, it's only my opinion, but ... .” “It seems to me ... .” Of course it's your opinion! That's why you're expressing it.
Naturally “it seems” to you, or you wouldn't be saying it. “More or less...to a greater or less degree...or something like that...” Punch-pulling phrases fuzz the crispness of a thought.
They are just as obnoxious as the superlatives at the opposite extreme.
Avoid word wax.
She who cleans her speech of waxy substance creates a lasting impression of intelligence, directness, and professionalism. Be sincere. Carve your communications without wax: you may rate a marble statue in the end.
(Based on Public Speaking As Listeners Like It, by Richard C. Borden, Harper Collins, 10 East 53rd Street, NY, NY 10022.)
Reprinted from PS for Business Communicators®, ECG's client newsletter.
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jayakris
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Re: Know your English
With all due respect to the author, who must be some British guy I am sure, a lot of that is hogwash. His explanations on why such "wax" should be avoided may sound very logical but a close look will show that it is not so, and that he is conveniently avoiding the situations where they all make perfect sense and are "absolutely, positively, essential!". Most phrases he says should be avoided are of course effective tools of communication, when used at the right occasion. If you don't have stuff to present, any of those things become wax. When there is indeed substance in what you say, those usages could well become very effective.
In general, I do not like these kinds of cook-book recipes made by people who THINK they know how everybody would respond to someone's speech or writing. And the listener/reader is not that dumb like they think either.
But it is also good to read these things, so that one can be aware of wasted items in one's speech/writing and make one's own judgment to improve themselves.
Jay
In general, I do not like these kinds of cook-book recipes made by people who THINK they know how everybody would respond to someone's speech or writing. And the listener/reader is not that dumb like they think either.
But it is also good to read these things, so that one can be aware of wasted items in one's speech/writing and make one's own judgment to improve themselves.
Jay
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Sandeep
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Re: Know your English
Ok, here is something I wanted to post but for some reason I kept on delaying it. Sorry Arun for putting up your post here 
. In the Bronx challenger thread Arun wrote: -
Shouldn't it be "I" there if be go by Bsharma's explanation? Is the usage of myself wrong? I was always under an impression that "myself" can be used there
. In the Bronx challenger thread Arun wrote: -LinkAs far as Sunil is concerned he echoed the same things as myself and gvh in that Sunil is not a go getter type. By that I dont mean Sunil doesnt desperately want to win, because he does.
Shouldn't it be "I" there if be go by Bsharma's explanation? Is the usage of myself wrong? I was always under an impression that "myself" can be used there
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BSharma
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Re: Know your English
The word "myself" is often used wrongly in place of "me" by many people. "Myself" is used when one has used "I" before it in a sentence.
Sandeep, look at the "subject" and "object" in the sentence. "...he echoed the same things as 'I', 'me', or 'myself'..." "He" is the subject in this sentence and "I" or "me" would refer to the object, hence the correct word to use is "me".Shouldn't it be "I" there if be go by Bsharma's explanation?
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Sandeep
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Re: Know your English
Not just Indians, even Americans get confused between lose and loose . Here is what is written on Andy Roddick's website
Link“He’s improving as well, which is scary,” Andy admitted that Roger’s game continues to grow. As always, Andy is the first to admit that the rivalry is a little one sided at the moment but joked “If you throw enough crap against the wall, something’s gonna stick…I’d rather loose to him in 8 grand slam finals…he is the best player in the game, there is no question,” Andy said without hesitation.
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jayakris
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Re: Know your English
That was perfect usage of "even", sandeep .. Jay
PS: Americans frequently write "loose" for "lose" .. Like "Your" for "You're" ..
.. JayPS: Americans frequently write "loose" for "lose" .. Like "Your" for "You're" ..
