Cricket Statistics and Trivia

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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

We were discussing the merits of using fielding statistics to come up with a value for half chances taken, etc. versus batting runs scored. Here is a simplistic article Value of Fielding. Sameer correctly said that the issue is difficult. However, baseball has an official scorer who assigns whether a missed catch was an "error" or not. Then, there are improved statistics using UZR etc. Generally, speaking if a wicket in cricket is worth 32 runs (average runs scored per wicket), a dropped catch should be actually worth that much assuming an average pitch and an average opponent. On a bowling wicket, it should be worth less. Another way to do it would be to peg it to the batsman's average. Dropping SRT is more of a crime than dropping Bishen Singh Bedi or McGrath.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

Murali Vijay has almost played 50 tests. He is not as bad, but, he is almost the Ishant Sharma of Indian cricket on the batting side. Our batsmen have been generally better, but, nobody was given 50+ test with a lower average (among those who do not bowl) except Vijay Merchant. As Sin Hombre pointed out, part of this is because he has been quite good in the last 4-5 years. But career-wise, Vijay, despite his obvious gifts, has produced at a slightly better rate than Dhawan, whose performance was ruled unacceptable after 23 tests. I am really hoping that Rahul will emerge to be another great opener one which Vijay has always flirted around being but never quite achieved. He needs a purple run. A series or two that he will dominate and change the result.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

I love the culture of numbers in baseball. Cricket uses numbers too, but, too often, the numbers do not mean much. And, there are very few sites on the web that actually do a decent analysis of what is going on. Maybe the teams and their statisticians do a whole bunch more. But, that is not out there in the public.

Consider a simple question: when do the numbers mean anything? The answer is that it depends upon what number. For example, the batting average may be an useful statistic after, say 20 innings, but, the bowling average may need 25 innings or 40 innings to be meaningful while bowling strike rate may need 30 innings to be "stabilized". This example is completely made up because I do not know when the numbers mean anything. So, all that we argue with numbers are possibly nonsense especially for newer players. Of course, there are many unseen factors such as injuries, loss of hand-eye coordination due to aging etc., that unstabilizes stabilized numbers. But, still the exercise of finding out when numbers are meaningful in general is a useful one.

Here is a site that does an excellent job to answer that question for baseball: Fangraphs article on sample size. Even if you do not understand baseball statistics, do take a cursory look. It should be clear what I am talking about.

All statistics are not lies, using statistics improperly results in lies.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

This article shows what we already knew. Virat Kohli is the only player who plays the hook and the pool reasonably well in tests in SENA countries. Rohit and Rahane are good hookers and pullers but only in India. They should avoid these shots abroad if they can. We saw some stupid outs from Rahul, Rahane, etc. in NZ without which we would have put up more of a fight. I wonder what our analytics team is doing and why the players are not told about these things. Or if they are, then why are they still playing shots they are not that good at abroad especially when the conditions were swinging in NZ?

On the other hand, both Pujara and Kohli are good at cover drives. cover drive article What this shows though that Pujara is too careful and perhaps should try to play more cover drives. An analysis needs to be done though to see where the sweet spot is with respect to risk and reward to maximize the number of runs he gets.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by suresh »

Is analytics used in cricket? If yes, to what extent?
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

The head of the sports institute at Penn State had consulted for Rajasthan Royals. He says that all the IPL teams use analytics. I am trying to figure out what they use :-) But, if ESPN, etc. are using basic analytics for several years, I would presume that the teams use it too. There seems to be a guy in the Indian dressing room jotting down a lot of things every ball or so. Let me dig in more and I can find relevant information. I assumed they do. But, it is a valid question.

Here is an article about a data analytics wing being set up in the NCA at Bengaluru. Dada and Dravid participated in the discussions. article. The article also says that data analytics was used to not select Pant initially for the WC and we have a data analytics guy. Which begs the question as to why everyone other than Kohli was not asked not to hook or pull and Pujara was not asked to bat a bit more aggressively given that a ball with his number would be bowled eventually under swinging conditions in NZ. It is not enough to just have a data analytics guy but we need to integrate it and pay attention to what the data is saying.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by RohitG »

Our tennis players would benefit if there was a similar wing. Ironically, we have an Indian company which provides key insights to ATP along with the sponsorship
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

Agree. We have enough people who know data analytics and cricket or tennis. The key is to find administrators who will pay attention. I have harped about cricket selection for a long time slicing and dicing data. In the recent years, atrocious selections have been few and far between. I think the reason is that we pay more attention to data and evidence these days in the selection committee.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

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Here is an article which sort of says the obvious Boundaries important in T20s. But, it goes on to look at the relative merits of dot balls (or their absence thereof, also related to singles) versus hitting boundaries. While avoiding dot balls is a good idea, hitting boundaries is the key. The issue is to find batsmen who can sustain hitting a four every 4 balls or so and still does not get out at least until they have reached 25-30 runs.

If we select solely on the SR, the following would be the selection: Thakur, Sundar, H. Pandya, Rahul, Karthik, Rohit, Kohli, V. Shankar. Sundar averages only 6.5. So, let us drop him. Thakur averages 42 but that is not sustainable. Let us drop him. We have the top 6 then scoring about 207. So that is not bad. Next in line are Suresh Raina and Krunal Pandya. Raina is 33. Don't know if he can regain his form. The good thing about going for the SR is that we have Pandya, Pandya, and Shankar. They should be able to together cover 3 bowers. So, we can actually add another batsman and then go for 3 more bowlers. Or go for four top bowlers to help them out.

Rahul, Rohit, Kohli, Karthik, Shankar, Hardik + Five bowlers. Or, the first six + Krunal + Four bowlers. Not bad.

The bowlers would be: Bumrah, Chahar, Saini, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Jadeja, Sundar.

My choice would be Jadeja, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Chahar, Bumrah. This one bats deep. We use Hardik as the 3rd pacer with Shankar the backup.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

If Atithee and others think that our tail is bad, and I say that they are not, then who is wrong. Of course, the answer should be it is I ;-) But, let us see what we see by the numbers. The problem is your definition of "tail". We certainly have the worst batsman in the world. Bumrah. His 50 in Australia was a revelation and I hope that he improves. But, here is the "proof".
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
TA Boult (NZ) 2012-2021 63 71 35 553 52* 15.36 985 56.14 0 1 11 55 25 investigate this query
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2020 54 49 27 332 40* 15.09 783 42.40 0 0 5 47 1 investigate this query
D Bishoo (WI) 2011-2012 10 18 8 130 26 13.00 313 41.53 0 0 4 13 1 investigate this query
JR Hazlewood (AUS) 2014-2021 33 45 24 260 39 12.38 572 45.45 0 0 7 36 2 investigate this query
Imran Tahir (SA) 2011-2015 16 17 7 88 29* 8.80 144 61.11 0 0 2 12 0 investigate this query
JM Anderson (ENG) 2011-2021 81 110 53 461 81 8.08 1131 40.76 0 1 18 67 2 investigate this query
M Morkel (SA) 2012-2018 30 35 10 154 40 6.16 294 52.38 0 0 12 22 3 investigate this query
I Sharma (INDIA) 2011-2018 28 27 17 51 12* 5.10 218 23.39 0 0 6 4 0 investigate this query
ST Gabriel (WI) 2012-2020 49 71 27 203 20* 4.61 546 37.17 0 0 18 26 5 investigate this query
N Pradeep (SL) 2011-2017 27 48 17 122 17* 3.93 333 36.63 0 0 17 18 0 investigate this query
CBRLS Kumara (SL) 2016-2020 18 22 12 34 10 3.40 136 25.00 0 0 8 5 0 investigate this query
MS Panesar (ENG) 2012-2013 11 17 6 33 13 3.00 114 28.94 0 0 6 3 0 investigate this query
JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 2018-2020 14 21 10 32 10* 2.90 146 21.91 0 0 6 3 0 investigate this query
Bumrah bests Panesar, Kumara, Pradeep, and Gabriel. We actually have the 2nd worst #11 in Sharma matching Sri Lanka. Note that Panesar has been banished since 2013 and England now have Anderson, who is not as bad. Best #11s? Boult and Lyon. Bishoo was decent too. Hazlewood is pretty good. India should require Bumrah to start taking batting seriously to at least score 4-5 runs more.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

If you look at #10 and #11, then too, we have some of the worst in Ishant, Shami, and Umesh (qual:20 innings). Add Bumrah to that. It is a bad tail.
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
N Wagner (NZ) 2013-2020 38 45 18 497 66* 18.40 799 62.20 0 1 6 56 21 investigate this query
TA Boult (NZ) 2011-2021 71 84 40 668 52* 15.18 1170 57.09 0 1 13 64 30 investigate this query
SCJ Broad (ENG) 2011-2021 61 77 21 805 62 14.37 1210 66.52 0 2 18 85 20 investigate this query
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2021 94 106 38 922 47 13.55 1755 52.53 0 0 12 123 8 investigate this query
JR Hazlewood (AUS) 2014-2021 52 63 29 412 39 12.11 911 45.22 0 0 10 58 2 investigate this query
RAS Lakmal (SL) 2011-2019 42 63 21 502 42 11.95 1048 47.90 0 0 12 67 3 investigate this query
Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2013-2020 42 51 19 361 51* 11.28 483 74.74 0 1 10 38 15 investigate this query
K Rabada (SA) 2015-2020 28 29 9 215 34 10.75 380 56.57 0 0 3 35 3 investigate this query
UT Yadav (INDIA) 2011-2020 40 44 21 245 26* 10.65 560 43.75 0 0 4 28 7 investigate this query
M Morkel (SA) 2011-2018 53 65 19 458 40 9.95 772 59.32 0 0 16 69 5 investigate this query
JM Anderson (ENG) 2011-2021 97 133 60 625 81 8.56 1405 44.48 0 1 20 90 2 investigate this query
I Sharma (INDIA) 2011-2019 56 65 23 211 16 5.02 767 27.50 0 0 18 25 0 investigate this query
ST Gabriel (WI) 2012-2020 50 75 27 207 20* 4.31 586 35.32 0 0 20 26 5 investigate this query
N Pradeep (SL) 2011-2017 27 48 17 122 17* 3.93 333 36.63 0 0 17 18 0
Sharma is 3rd worst, Yadav 6th worst, and Shami 10th worst. NZ has the best #10, 11. England has a pretty good #10. Australia has a pretty good #10 and #11. Sri Lanka has the worst tail, ~15 runs together. India is about 15-16 runs together. South Africa is about 20 runs. The other three (Aus-NZ-Eng) are better than us. WI does not even have a regular 10-11. Neither does Pakistan. They chop and change too much. So, difficult to say whether they are better or worse.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by Kumar »

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Since the start of 2019, only West Indies and India have bowled more balls per wicket against the tail than England in Tests. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SLvEng?src= ... #SLvEng</a> <a href="https://t.co/R1XEO8yhdn">pic.twitter.co ... </p>&mdash; The CricViz Analyst (@cricvizanalyst) <a href=" 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Trying to embed Tweet for first time! As per this tweet, India finds it very difficult to get tailenders out since 2019! Something we have always thought was true, but stats seems to back it up
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by Kumar »

Batting averages by tail Enders for last two years

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... pe=batting

Partnership average with tailenders, just better than Bangladesh among test playing countries
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... s;type=fow


It does seem like last 5 years , India is not bad! Just the past two years have been atrocious
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

In the last two years, almost one year was COVID-spent. In two years, all teams may not be playing that much away vs home evenly.

Splicing it by home and away. At home India are #3 and Australia is bad. New Zealand is tops. Home tail average in the last 2 years.
Overall figures
Team Players Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
New Zealand 9 2019-2021 10 28 11 686 126 40.35 955 71.83 1 3 3 62 30 investigate this query
Bangladesh 7 2019-2020 2 9 3 122 48* 20.33 303 40.26 0 0 1 9 2 investigate this query
India 6 2019-2019 5 11 5 122 31 20.33 117 104.27 0 0 2 9 10 investigate this query
England 12 2019-2020 12 68 19 801 62 16.34 1546 51.81 0 1 6 93 14 investigate this query
West Indies 8 2019-2019 4 28 5 332 39 14.43 663 50.07 0 0 4 41 9 investigate this query
Zimbabwe 6 2020-2020 2 14 4 140 44* 14.00 447 31.31 0 0 1 15 0 investigate this query
Sri Lanka 8 2019-2021 4 28 7 280 67 13.33 696 40.22 0 1 7 33 6 investigate this query
South Africa 11 2019-2021 8 56 12 583 73 13.25 1157 50.38 0 2 11 79 7 investigate this query
Australia 6 2019-2021 10 43 10 433 30 13.12 865 50.05 0 0 4 43 7 investigate this query
Pakistan 5 2019-2020 3 8 2 17 5 2.83 86 19.76 0 0 2 2 0
If you splice it away, then we are towards the bottom Tail averages away
Overall figures
Team Players Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
South Africa 8 2019-2019 3 24 5 397 72 20.89 1023 38.80 0 2 4 54 6 investigate this query
Australia 6 2019-2019 5 31 12 370 54* 19.47 695 53.23 0 1 4 42 7 investigate this query
Pakistan 8 2019-2021 7 48 11 589 113 15.91 1275 46.19 1 1 7 83 3 investigate this query
New Zealand 10 2019-2020 5 31 9 340 40* 15.45 654 51.98 0 0 4 31 8 investigate this query
Afghanistan 4 2019-2019 1 8 1 107 51 15.28 149 71.81 0 1 2 11 4 investigate this query
West Indies 8 2020-2020 5 35 9 363 86 13.96 692 52.45 0 2 7 43 6 investigate this query
England 11 2019-2021 10 58 13 596 44 13.24 965 61.76 0 0 12 71 16 investigate this query
India 12 2019-2021 8 47 13 427 67 12.55 844 50.59 0 3 9 49 6 investigate this query
Sri Lanka 12 2019-2021 9 50 12 417 48 10.97 972 42.90 0 0 14 52 4 investigate this query
Bangladesh 10 2019-2020 5 40 10 232 38 7.73 561 41.35 0 0 8 32 5 investigate this query
Zimbabwe 5 2020-2020 1 8 2 46 18 7.66 143 32.16 0 0 2 6 0 investigate this query
Ireland 4 2019-2019 1 8 1 47 16 6.71 89 52.80 0 0 1 7 1
So, why is Australia bad at home and good abroad? I think it is just small sample size.
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Re: Cricket Statistics and Trivia

Post by prasen9 »

Our numbers get dragged down because we have a bunch of zeros batting at the end. In essence, our pacers were useless bats. We used three abroad usually. So, 7 down was 10 down for us. Umesh, Ishant, Bumrah, Shami - all horrible, especially abroad. In India, we only play two of them. And, now Siraj and Saini are awful too. Our spinners are usually better bats. And, so we do better in India. One of our pacers gets stuck sometimes in India but do not do very well against the rising or moving ball abroad.

That is why Shardul is such a revelation. If he can bowl okay abroad and bat even at 15 runs/innings, that will be quite something.
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