Sourav Ganguly - One of our Greatest Captains!

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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

A nice article on Ganguly's inclusion

Ganguly handed a false lifeline
If that's the case, and this is temporary buying of the peace before board elections, then it's a real shame. India's most successful captain, a man who stared down Waugh without blinking in that halcyon spring of 2001, deserves more than a back-door pass, and certainly better than to have his name crossed off as just another probable who failed to make the grade.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

Cricinfo writes:
Ganguly sinking as chances run out

From the same article, here's a pic from last yr's issue of "The Telegraph".
Ganguly..the god.

Image
source: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051014/a ... 352958.asp
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

What was fascinating about this Cricinfo article was the undertone. "Dravid and Tendulkar wanted to make damn sure that they wouldn't get out to Ganguly..."; "Dravid was trying hard to suppress the exuberance of his celebration when Ganguly was out". They hate the man who led Indian cricket to greatness, don't they? India's undoing throughout history has been our disunity.

I can assure Cricinfo that it won't be that easy to sink Ganguly. Of course, the key is if his team gets to bat first (NOT under lights in the next match). This Challenger series is a ridiculous crap-shoot depending on the toss.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by Sandeep »

The way I look at it, I think both Sachin and Dravid played Ganguly with respect. Otherwise for a batsman who is set, it wouldn't be much difficult to hoist Ganguly over the top when they are able to do it even for specialist bowlers.This particular incident and the other when Sourav's dismissal was not celebrated just show the amount of respect they have for former Indian captain.

And regarding "ridiculous crap shoot depending on the toss" , it is the same even for ODIs played in India (not just challenger series). Isn't it? 
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

The Challenger series pitches seem to particularly favour batsmen in the first innings of the matches, and (in my opinion) are a poor predictor of a player's performance in the rest of the season. The team batting second has hardly any chance (although this may not just be because of the lights, but also because the first team has amassed a huge score). India Red won the toss in both their matches!
Last year Uthappa was one star of the Challenger, but he didn't quite come good internationally after his first match. But Chappell basically made the performance in the Challenger the sole basis of selection for the next 4-5 months (as in the case of Sreesanth, a decision that did eventually bear fruit, but wasn't justified by his horrible economy rate in his first 10-12 ODIs; ironically, Sreesanth's recent performances have been much better, but the selectors have recently started noticing his career figures -- and left him out of the team, although his career figures are better now than they were when he was a regular in the side early this year!).
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

A gritty 118* with 12 fours and 3 sixes marked Ganguly's return to form amid bomb blasts, rain and some fiery fast bowling from Ashish Nehra and Gagandeep Singh:

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/india/c ... 67067.html
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

Bengal Vs. Punjab Ranji match started yesterday.
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/engi ... 63080.html

Not a good outing for Sourav...just 6 runs. Nevertheless, his outstanding bowling form continues...2 wickets for 12 runs (9 overs).
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

The attempt to produce "sporting" wickets for domestic cricket has paradoxically resulted in some grounds (Mohali, Eden Gardens, Baroda, Bangalore) becoming a paradise for swing bowlers on the first day (especially the first morning) and then gradually becoming easier to bat on through the rest of the match. Losing the toss and batting first is usually a recipe for suicide -- as Bengal (who were 18/5 after 7 overs!) and Karnataka (all out for 85 against Baroda) discovered today. Bowlers like Gagandeep Singh, Ganguly and Mohanty have flattering bowling figures in these conditions. Note VRV Singh's comparative lack of success (and the fact that he wasn't even given the new ball!).
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

Here's the professional opinion of a crusty old veteran and former foe of Ganguly and Laxman:

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/rsavind ... 69577.html

I remember watching Ganguly make 97 at Hove in the first match of India's 1999 World Cup campaign against South Africa. He was in miserable form (failing to even get into double figures) in the practice matches leading up to that first game. But he dominated the bowling from the start. And I'm sure Donald remembers the fearsome thrashing he gave South Africa (especially Pollock) in the semifinal of the Champions Trophy in Africa.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

Yes, India will surely miss VVSL and SCG in South Africa.

Donald writes:

Code: Select all

Sourav Ganguly is another batsman who must be sitting at home wondering what he has done wrong
One thing that he's done wrong is...not scored runs in any form of cricket lately.
I'd like to see SCG score runs and come back to the team (and socre tonnes of more runs).
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

So, Puneet, Duleep Trophy is no form of cricket. He just got a century in the last match he played, and here he's followed his 3/29 bowling performance with 43 fluent runs before falling lbw to Mohali maestro Gagandeep Singh. He outscored Kaif and Raina (his team-mates) in the Challenger Trophy where his side's loss of the toss ensured it was a huge disadvantage. As Donald says, he is a class player -- as he showed when given a chance under trying circumstances and intense pressure last year against Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Given India's dire straits at the moment, any objective observer would want to see Laxman and Ganguly brought back into the squad (not necessarily the XI for every match) forthwith.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by puneets »

His Duleep trophy century was a welcome return to form. He had failed in quite few innings before that (county included) . People like Gambhir, Chopra, Gavaskar, Kumar have also been scoring consistenly ...so Ganguly's one-off performance is nothing "extraordinary" (by his standards). The kind of support that Ganguly has, he'll be an automatic selection if he scores 2-3 centuries quickly. Same is NOT true for the likes of Gambhir, Chopra, Gavaskar etc..'cos Ganguly has already proven that he is a seasoned international cricketer.

Ganguly does not have to prove himself day in and day out like what Zaheer had to do in the county+domestic cricket for a recall. He needs some quick runs..and that'll be it.
Last edited by puneets on Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by PKBasu »

puneets wrote: His Duleep trophy century was a welcome return to form. He had failed in quite few innings before that (county included) .
.. The kind of support that Ganguly has, he'll be an automatic selection if he scores 2-3 centuries quickly. Same is NOT true for the likes of Gambhir, Chopra, Gavaskar etc..'cos Ganguly has already proven that he is a seasoned international cricketer.

Ganguly does not have to prove himself day in and day out....
Maybe Ganguly doesn't have to prove himself day in and day out in your eyes, Puneet, but he certainly does in the eyes of Chappell and the selectors (influenced by him).
VVS Laxman has been called up to replace the injured Dravid before the last two ODIs. There is absolutely no doubt that, in terms of recent form, Ganguly is doing better than Laxman. And there is simply no comparison between the two when it comes to ODI career records: Ganguly averages over 40, with 22 centuries, while Laxman has a modest average of just over 31 (approximately the same as Sehwag, albeit with a much slower scoring rate than Viru's). As Dalmiya and the CAB pointed out, Ganguly made a fluent 43 on a difficult pitch in Mohali (where neither side was able to score too many runs) and took 5 wickets in the match. In his previous match, Ganguly made a century in the Duleep Trophy. On current form, and using objective judgment, there is no doubt that Ganguly would have been the natural choice to be selected for the ODI side -- especially as he would add a huge dimension to the bowling. Incidentally, he has done remarkably well with the ball in all forms of cricket throughout the brief phase when he appeared to be "out of form" with the bat.

As for being out of form in county cricket, I would suggest you give this another detailed look. I remember saying as soon as I saw the itinerary that it was likely to be quite a disastrous season for Ganguly cricket-wise, as he was scheduled to play mainly the Twenty20 fixtures during the five weeks he was to spend in England. He played his first county match the day after he arrived -- never a good idea for someone who needs a bit of time to acclimatise. He played two more first-class games after a month of just Twenty20 games and one limited-overs game, and he did indeed fail with the bat in all three first-class games (Remember that Yuvi was a complete failure for Yorkshire, but only his enemies would say that he should then have been penalised for the next Indian season for this -- as he wasn't at the time!). Then he played mainly in the Twenty20, where he averaged a bit over 27 with the bat at a good run-rate, and was the top wicket-taker for his side. He was Man of the Match in one Twenty20 game. I thought this was a decent performance, especially in a form of the game that doesn't suit him (he was opening throughout, when he might have done much better coming in at no. 4 and hitting out from the outset; the reason I didn't expect him to do very much in Twenty20 is that -- especially as opener -- Ganguly usually takes a bit of time to get his eye in, something that there isn't much time for in this form of cricket). Importantly, he played just one-day game and scored 71.
Compare that with Mongia, who averaged 13.5 in one-day games for his county, but was promptly selected to play for India in ODIs (with the selectors observing that he was in great form in county cricket -- based on his two big first-class centuries early in the season, following which he was in wretched form through the rest of the season).

In fact, now the selectors (read Chappell) will find any and every reason to keep Ganguly out of the side. Allowing him in now, for instance, will "risk" being seen as a saviour if he succeeds -- and that simply cannot be allowed to happen. Last year, Ganguly was second in the Ranji averages after Jaffer, and demonstrated fine form with bat and ball through the season. He was selected to play for India in tests, and demonstrated fine form (averaging 38 in the tests he played). Having been selected for one test in Pakistan, he agreed with his captain's desire to open -- but Chappell and Dravid decided at the last moment not to let him do so, again because he might succeed (and thereby be seen as showing qualities of team-spirit and leadership that he has consistently shown). He took a fine catch, fielded with verve in that match, and then batted well in the next match (when the rest of the middle order except Yuvi failed) and also took a key wicket to break a long opening partnership; he was promptly dropped, never to be selected since. On the strength of recent performances for India, Ganguly should've been the first choice replacement when Yuvi got injured. But he wasn't selected, and now hasn't been selected when Dravid is injured either. I think it is unlikely he will be selected no matter how well he bats and bowls -- as long as Chappell is India's coach. I don't think one can ignore his bowling form. He didn't bowl much when captaining India, but his bowling form has been excellent in both his county stints the last two years, and it has been excellent in all forms of cricket in India this season and last. His economy-rate was the best for his side in both the Challenger Trophy matches (in each of which, by the way, he outscored Raina and Kaif, two current stalwarts of the India side; this is important to emphasise, because the manner of how he got the 24 runs in the first game -- when his side was chasing a huge total under lights -- should also be taken into account, before a neutral observer concludes he was "out of form"; his team-mates did considerably worse, but remain in the India side!). Ganguly has been a key wicket-taker (at an excellent economy rate, usually the best on either side) in both the Ranji and Duleep Trophy this year. With the bowlers struggling, and given his demonstrably good form with the bat, he would add a lot of extra options in South Africa at the moment. Sadly, politics will continue to keep him out and India struggling. (I welcome Laxman's selection on its own logic, but if it was form and past history alone, there is no doubt that Ganguly -- not only because of his batting form, but even more because of his success with the ball in the last two seasons -- would have been the better first selection). 
Last edited by PKBasu on Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ganguly's omission from the team - your opinion

Post by sanjay8886 »

There is only one reason why Ganguly cannot be included in the team. If he gets included( he should be as a captain, just as a player won't help in team India's chance in WC), this will mean a gross failure for the entire team management including BCCI boss "Sharad Pawar( well his cricket credential is well known; other than being from Mumbai)".

The BCCI management including captain and coach should resign( actually should be kicked in their butt) for doing a grave injustice to Ganguly. He became captain of the team when things were that bad that Sachin( our cricket god) simply couldn't handle this(captain) hot seat. Everybody ganged up and removed ganguly from captainship and from the team. His only sin being that he made century in the last test against Zim( they are no pushover when team india plays abroad) while all other batsman struggled and was instrumental in India's win.

The other sin he committed was when he was brought back in Pak test match. Well, his fate was well known even before he was inducted in the team. No matter what he does there, he will be OUT. Although he made decent 30's( decent compared to other indian stalwarts score) in both innings, he was dropped.

Is there any question about his leadership? Even now, Bengal won against strong Punjab even while Punjab had such strong fast bowlers and the pitch was of Mohali. Probably, about 85% of Indian thinks there is a gross injustice towards ganguly but it won't make much difference until our BCCI chief's and a strong lobby( BCCI chief, chief selectors and all who matters think otherwise. Who can be in team other than Jaffar(is it b'coz of Mumbai lobby) even though he was debutting in ODI and that too in SA)?

Atleast, till the WC, they should do the following:

1. Reinstate Ganguly as a captain and show Chappel exit door.
2. Make Sandeep Patil cricket coach. He proved too good to be Kenya's coach and also briefly that of India.

Why pay such hefty amount of money to Chappel when all we could see is India's deterioration in fielding, batting( to the limit that Dinesh Karthik is considered better batsman than all other regulars) and balling( does chappel know who is India's frontline baller for next match. If his answer is Zaheer, then he did grave injustice to him as well for keeping him out for such long time just because he was from Ganguly's lobby). Who is best spinner in our team; it is still Kumble( again gross injustice towards him). Who is a good batsman, finally Laxman? What selectors and team management has been doing so far? Couldn't even develop one good cricketer. Ganguly alone developed all the team members. So better let that guy decide the team and listen respectfully what he says.

Why BCCI keeps talking about as if they can't do anything against Chappell until his contract expires. Did they not break contract before? Remember Ganguly is still contractually a Grade "A" team India player. So why he is not even in top 16.

Please remove politics from cricket and save the cricketing India from disgrace for the WC 2007. It will be fun watching team India perform in the world cup( I have purchased the ticket already). I have a suspicion now that they may not even qualify for super 8 on their current form and leadership.

The same team( changing 3-4 guys) would do wonders under a good leadership like that of Ganguly.
Last edited by sanjay8886 on Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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