Are Indians Born Losers?

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Are Indians Born Losers?

Post by BSharma »

Here is a link to an excellent article about junior golf in India. Read it soon because the link will go away in a short time.

The article talks about "Money matters", "Role models", "Equipment and coaching", "Planning" and "Roadblocks".

http://www.golfdigestindia.com/cover.htm
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Post by Sandeep »

Arjun Atwal made 486,000$!!! Wow, that is some money. Is there any other sport in whicha 148th ranked player makes 400,00 dollars. That is too good. He must be the richest Indian sports player after cricketers.
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Post by FirstIndiaFan »

Nothingnew,
The question was how many in top 100, among both women and men have graduated. If men have it tough, women are in worse position to garduate because they are on the circuit earlier than men. For many of them are still in high school or early college when they begin their career.

Sania has a long way to go. She has not graduated yet. She might have the desire to do it, she might be smart enough to do it, her parents might insist on it. It remains to be seen if she can keep up the torrid pace particularly if she climbs up in the world rankings.

Bsharma...Ramanathan is the greatest player we have produced so far, no doubt about it. The quote about him from the rev. Murphy bothered me though.
"Don't worry, Madras University won't fail you,"


What did he mean? That because you are playing tennis for us we won't fail you? Hmm....If I had some one in such a position say that, I would have given up studying and focused on tennis alone! Ramanathan perhaps didn't need that kind of help, but I do not like that quote.

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Post by kiran r more »

Only the cynics and skeptics will say that we are the born losers.Champions are not born they are made.And to make a champion you require combinations of various factors

1. Talent 2. Identification of talent at an early stage 3 Commitment of parents 4.Prpoer guidance and coaching from the begining.5.Financial support to enable international exposure and training. 6. opportunities.

Just take the case of sania.She is the destiny's child who got all the above requirements.However,for one sania you have many girls like Megha,Isha,Bhambri sisters and others,who were as talented as sania,their parents had also high level of commitment,but the financial support was totally missing.We all know how Isha could not participate in junior grand slams because she did not have funds.Most of the talented boys opt for university scholarships-simply because their parents can not afford international tennis--somdev,rohan gajjar,amanjot--the list is too long.

So the basic thing is to identify the talent and nurture them.Give them financial support so that they can get international exposure and training.And only then you can have champions.
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"Don't worry, Madras University won't fail you,"

What did he mean? That because you are playing tennis for us we won't fail you? Hmm....If I had some one in such a position say that, I would have given up studying and focused on tennis alone! Ramanathan perhaps didn't need that kind of help, but I do not like that quote.



I saw similar thing happening in Allahabad University and Lucknow University in India. It gets worse in many high schools and colleges in USA where instructors give "C" grade (instead of "F") so that athletes could represent their institution in sporting events. However, many college basketball and football players do not graduate in USA. One can check the graduation rate of student athletes at US colleges.

Graduating from an Indian college and an American college is different because of the longer time span that is required to graduate from the latter.
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Post by Sandeep »

Longer time span required?? Why? Americans has same 4 year undergraduate college and 2 years masters like India. In what way is it longer? Ofcourse they do take breaks in between, but I don't think that makes the education system longer.

And coming to passing Ramanathan Krishnan, that is a great move. Obviously you need to do all these things to assure a playerof his future, especially at that time.
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Post by BSharma »

Sandeep,

I am not sure how is it in Andhra pradesh but in Uttar Pradesh a student needed only two years to graduate after 12th grade. A few places required 3 years to graduate after the 12th grade. A student in some US colleges may take more than four years to graduate in some majors unless he or she takes some classes during the summer vacation.

Do all Indian universities require a student to spend 4 years to graduate after 12th grade? I am not as familiar with the Indian education system now, and let me know what is the current method of graduation from Indian colleges.

Addendum:

The link below describes graduation from Indian universities (12 + 3) for bachelor's degree as taking 3 years after 12 years of schooling. It is one year less than in USA (12 + 4).

http://www.allindianewspapers.com/educa ... n-data.htm
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Post by Sandeep »

Well Bsharma it depends. Actually you are right, being an engineer I didn't think about degrees like B.com and all. Engineering degree takes 4 years, it is similiar to U.S education. Where as it is 3 years for other departments. One year leass than USA education. But I never heard of this 2 year degree.
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Post by BSharma »

But I never heard of this 2 year degree.
:Offtopic:
Back in my days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and human knowledge was limited (electricity, telephones, TV, paper, etc were not invented by that time), a person could graduate (12+2) after 2 years from a college (university) in Uttar Pradesh. :wink: :D

Or we were a lot smarter than people nowadays and could do in two years what it takes students three years to do. :devil: :kookoo:

The first point I am trying to make is that college graduation requires different number of years depending on where a tennis player goes to college (USA, India, etc.).

The second point is that a college education is not required to be a successful tennis player. However, if a tennis player has no college degree and has to leave the pro-circuit before making his or her mark in the tennis world then it will be hard for him or her to get a proper job.
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Post by FirstIndiaFan »

BSharma,
While the graduation rate of basketball players in US universities is low, it is still several times higher than tennis players. Heck... this entire forum has been able to come up with only 2 names so far over the past 20 years or so!

I know the basketball palyers' graduation rate gets questioned a lot, but never the tennis players' graduation rate. I think there are reasons why that happens...perhaps the race of the predominant players in each sport! The last I heard the US basketball playerrs' were graduating at 16%...low, but much higher than tennis. It is so low that the atheletic association does not like to publish the percentage.

Nothingnew...good move by University, to give degree to a player because he palyed tennis? Degree from that univesrsity should not be worth the paper it is written on! Try that with a prestigiuos university. Yes..in some cases a C is given in place of an F in US..and that too is wrong.

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Post by BSharma »

While the graduation rate of basketball players in US universities is low, it is still several times higher than tennis players. Heck... this entire forum has been able to come up with only 2 names so far over the past 20 years or so!
Very few basketball players go from US high schools to NBA, and most go to colleges to refine their art and earn a shot at the NBA. Most high school basketball players do not have the muscle power or skills to play with the top NBA players. Hardly any player will join a minor pro-basketball league straight out of high school.

Tennis is different from basketball in this respect. The talented tennis players will turn pro after high school (if they study that long) and will play in the minor leagues (Futures/Challengers) to refine their skills. The US College tennis program is not the best way to develop the tennis skills for many top talented junior players. The junior tennis players are playing all over the world by the time they are 14 years of age, and hence a high school education is difficult, in contrast to the junior basketball players in USA who spend their time playing for their high schools and in summer leagues.

I am still unclear about the point that FirstIndiaFan is trying to make about lack of college degrees among pro-tennis players. Somehow the point is not getting through my thick skull. :D
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Post by BSharma »

There are many tennis players who graduate from the US colleges but most of them do not make the top 100. My gut feeling is that the graduation rate of tennis players who stick around for four years is higher than in basketball players who play out their eligibility in US colleges.

If you really want to know about basketball and graduation rate then look at the graduation rate of the players who are starters on the team. The bench players often increase the graduation rate in many colleges in USA.
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Post by FirstIndiaFan »

BSharma,
If my point did not get through, I am sure it was not because of, as you say, your thick skull. I believe the 'thrifty' Indian genes have permenantly thinned our skulls...remember its thrifty...meaning no wasted material :tomato:

If at all, it has more to do with my thick toungue that speaks no good English or most likely my fat fingers that can't type error free!

Anyway, I was trying to highlight the dilemma faced by Indian parents of potential world class players in the context of Indians being the so called 'born loosers'. With the additional emphasis placed on education in India, and with no gaurnteed success in tennis, it is a tough call for them. Somewhere along the way in the discussion thread, a reference to basketball players came up. So I was just clarifying that in BB atleast there is a chance a player will graduate but in tennis, if you are good enough to be in the top 100, forget the college degree, which still is a symbol of basic education.

Can the Indian parents, who involve themselves a lot more than other parents in their kid's lives, and also until the child is almost mature, have the guts to give up on education and allow the kid to play tennis alone? The answer is very, very rarely. That cuts down on number of kids playing past certain level of play in India and suddenly the population to draw from for tennis talent is not a billion anymore! That's all.

If the point is still not coming through, then I must clamp my mouth shut on my thick toungue, fold my hands and seal my lips with my fat index finger! :D

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Post by BSharma »

After I hit my head on a brick wall several times ( :damn: ) I did manage to crack open my skull and all of a sudden your concern about lack of graduation from college and a top 100 tennis career for Indian children became very clear. :D

As you have correctly stated that Indian parents put a lot of emphasis on college education, and expect their children to excel in sports and be a college graduate. In many sports it is possible but in tennis it appears to be a daunting task for the young talented Indian tennis players.

However, India does have some parents who have taken a different path, and examples are Leander, Shikha and Neha Uberoi, Karan, Harsh, Sania, etc. I expect Somdev to get on the pro-tour full-time without getting his degree, and do not expect Sania, Shikha and Neha to return to college until their playing days are over.

I think that parents of promosing Indian junior tennis players are aware that college education and top 100 ranking in men or women's tennis do not go hand in hand. But as FirstIndiaFan correctly said that many Indian parents will find this fact hard to digest and will opt for their children to stay in school/college and give up any chance of becoming a top 100 tennis player. All of a sudden the billion plus population of India becomes a lot smaller number from where the future tennis players will come from.
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Post by Sandeep »

First Indian it is not question of guts. It would be foolish for an Indian parent to ask his kid to stop studying and concentrate on sport. Gut comes in when you know you are going to get the fruits of your hardwork and that is more to do with confidence also. But sports in India are like, even you give 100% there is no gaurantee that you will succeed. Lot of other issues are also invovled like finance, politics etc. If a parent with his gut feeling ask his kid to stop studying and in future he finds there are no sponsors then wouldn't it be foolish rather than gut?
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