Indian Shooting thread

[HockeywithBilli]

[HockeywithBilli]

[prasen9]

It seems like in shooting we are slowly becoming one of the powerhouses. This is a good sign. The usual caveats that large countries do well in age-group tournaments because of their large pools of players, etc. and we need to convert on the big stage remains but generally I see many positives in this sport. We should be good in this because it requires mental skills a lot (physically we are not the biggest, strongest, fastest race ... I think).

[srini]

^^
Haven't Nadeem and Neeraj from sub content not done enough to change that stereotypical perception with their feats in last Olympics?

Proper scouting of talent is important in countries like India where people may not realize their own potential during junior years.

[sameerph]

It seems like in shooting we are slowly becoming one of the powerhouses. This is a good sign. The usual caveats that large countries do well in age-group tournaments because of their large pools of players, etc. and we need to convert on the big stage remains but generally I see many positives in this sport. We should be good in this because it requires mental skills a lot (physically we are not the biggest, strongest, fastest race ... I think).

Yes, overall a good sign. In the Paris olympics, in terms of overall medal tally in shooting with 3 medals, we were 5th behind China, Korea, US and Italy. China is really a superpower here, got 10 medals in Paris, 11 in Tokyo to top.

It is a big mountain to climb to match China but to become a powerhouse, we need to get to 6 or so medals at next olympics and a couple of golds at least which will be top 3 both in terms of total medals and golds. It is doable considering how we have been doing in juniors but needs a lot of focus in next 4 years.

[arjun2761]

If INDIA is to win 10+ medals in Los Angeles, then the shooting team will absolutely need to win at least four or five of those. Hopefully with two more medals in cricket that will get us pretty close to that elusive target.

[prasen9]

^^
Haven't Nadeem and Neeraj from sub content not done enough to change that stereotypical perception with their feats in last Olympics?

Not really. This will change when we win a 100m sprint. Genetics matters. I doubt it is just stereotypical. Javelin requires speed, strength, flexibility, and a lot of things. People over the world can develop strength - see our culture in wrestling. Neeraj comes from the same belt. As does Nadeem. As Indians, we are quite flexible due to our yoga culture. And, we got good training to get the right technique, gathering speed and then transferring power within a very short time, requiring skill and mental discipline, which are very important for javelin. A 100m sprint is more one-dimensional: speed+strength, which can be built, reflexes (start). In that the twitch muscles and genes matter a lot more. When a bunch of people of non-African genetics win the 100m sprint, then yes, I will accept that genetics does not matter. I doubt that will happen.

Let's make a bet. The day any Asian wins the 100m consistently (not a middle-east export from Africa), I will be happy to say that I was wrong about race/genes mattering.

Proper scouting of talent is important in countries like India where people may not realize their own potential during junior years.

It is important in all countries. Including countries with systems like China or accessibility to sports infrastructure as in the U.S. It is someone with an eye who tells a kid they can be good ...

[Atithee]

I’m sorry; junior results don’t mean much to me. Can someone cite the best 3-5 individual (not team) juniors who went on to become medal winners at a major competition in any sport? I’m looking for singles but will take doubles too. Thanks.

[prasen9]

Easy. Leander Paes.

Federer won Wimbledon Junior. Tons more examples.

The point is a junior winner has a higher probability of getting a senior medal. But, lots of junior winners win nothing. However, for people who have not won much in juniors, the probability of getting a senior medal is lower. Exception: when the junior athlete is prodigious and skips the junior circuit largely and goes into the senior circuit. For example, Sinner. But, tons of junior winners later win the main tournament.

Sort of the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions. Junior winning is not sufficient. Strictly speaking it is not necessary either but the probabilities are higher. On the other hand, junior failures, probabilistically don't magically find success in the seniors (late-bloomers excepted - but that is the exception, i.e., rare).

[Atithee]

I was talking about Indians. Age fudging creates huge doubts about juniors’ successes in countries where it’s relatively easy to misrepresent age. And, Paes wasn’t really a singles success I had in mind. But, will take it. Other examples? I was thinking badminton may have been our best feeder but I don’t know.

[rajitghosh]

Saina Nehwal world junior champion did not do too badly in seniors. Stephan Edberg won all 4 junior Slams and our own Krishnans has success in the junior Slams. There are plenty of examples.

[sameerph]

Since we started talking about shooting, one example is Manu Bhaker. She was a gold medalist at youth Olympics in 2018, gold medalist at world junior Championships in 2021 and now double Olympic medalist in 2024.

Not everyone who does well in juniors does well later but quite a few do even among Indians.

[Atithee]

Saina Nehwal world junior champion did not do too badly in seniors. Stephan Edberg won all 4 junior Slams and our own Krishnans has success in the junior Slams. There are plenty of examples.

Plenty? For India?

[Atithee]

Since we started talking about shooting, one example is Manu Bhaker. She was a gold medalist at youth Olympics in 2018, gold medalist at world junior Championships in 2021 and now double Olympic medalist in 2024.

Not everyone who does well in juniors does well later but quite a few do even among Indians.

Who are these “few?” That’s what I’m looking for. So far, I got Manu and Saina. Maybe Krishnans.

[rajitghosh]

There are a lot. Lakshya Sen and Prannoy won silvers in Youth Olympics. Lakshya, Prannoy and Sai Praneeth were medallists at the world juniors also. A lot of our cricketers have been under-19 world champions including the likes of Kaif, Yuvraj and Kohli. Same is the case with hockey.