T20 World Cup, W.Indies/USA 2024

[prasen9]

I don't care to show nonsensical stats that you make up. Any idiot can play well in 1 or two matches. And, even Bradman failed in 1-2 matches. Or less than 10-15 matches. Those are called flukes. Leave aside one KL, no team ever has won anything with domestic failures in the history of world cricket. That nonsense does not work ever.

The England side in 2022 had 0 domestic failures. That is what I am showing you. Now, show me one team who won the cup with a domestic failure.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Who cares about your non sense statpadding, KL average 21+ in 2022 T20 WC, and hasn't played since his failure in big match against England. The star will play IPL and ask his free ticket to 2024 T20WC with all those useless experience as if others doesnt exist or are less patriotic then him. Check 2007 WC, Indian players hardly played any large number of T20 then SENA but won the title.

For South Africa, domestic t20 started in 2003
For England, domestic t20 started in 2003
For NZ, domestic t20 started in 2005
For Aus, domestic t20 started in 2005

By your logic they are experienced as they started much earlier then India, and could have won that first title quite easily

[Kumar]

U all have lot of patience to keep arguing the same stats

Unless some one has a unique perspective, we should probably put this to bed as I don’t think we are going to convince one another. Let us all agree that Deepak Chahar is the second coming of Imran Khan and Tewetia is shane Warne clone and move on

Moving on to new topic, who is your favorite fringe player darkhorse candidate (oxymoron ?) that will surprise everyone and make the team?

[PKBasu]

Wasn’t Canada to be removed from this thread name?

YES! And it isn't off-topic. @sameer could you please do the honours?? The World Cup is being played in the West Indies and US -- not Canada.

[prasen9]

Who cares about your non sense statpadding, KL average 21+ in 2022 T20 WC, and hasn't played since his failure in big match against England. The star will play IPL and ask his free ticket to 2024 T20WC with all those useless experience as if others doesnt exist or are less patriotic then him. Check 2007 WC, Indian players hardly played any large number of T20 then SENA but won the title.

For South Africa, domestic t20 started in 2003
For England, domestic t20 started in 2003
For NZ, domestic t20 started in 2005
For Aus, domestic t20 started in 2005

By your logic they are experienced as they started much earlier then India, and could have won that first title quite easily

This is again your nonsense. I never said that only experienced players will win a cup. You keep creating your nonsense and arguing against it. I suppose it is too much to expect you to know that you cannot take a statement and invert it and argue against that inversion. My principle is simple. Domestic failures do not win international trophies. That does not mean only experienced players win international cups or any of the other nonsenses you create and say that I said. If we have a whole bunch of inexperienced players, bring them on. My condition is that they should not be domestic failures. In this recent test series, I supported Yashasvi, had Jurel in my team from the first test, supported Sarfaraz, and did not want Pujara to be brought back that Kumar was supporting. I supported these inexperienced players because they were domestic successes. The 2007 team was full of players who were domestic successes if not in T20, in ODIs, List-As, etc. None of them were out and out domestic failures. Show me one team that won with domestic failures.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Who cares about your non sense statpadding, KL average 21+ in 2022 T20 WC, and hasn't played since his failure in big match against England. The star will play IPL and ask his free ticket to 2024 T20WC with all those useless experience as if others doesnt exist or are less patriotic then him. Check 2007 WC, Indian players hardly played any large number of T20 then SENA but won the title.

For South Africa, domestic t20 started in 2003
For England, domestic t20 started in 2003
For NZ, domestic t20 started in 2005
For Aus, domestic t20 started in 2005

By your logic they are experienced as they started much earlier then India, and could have won that first title quite easily

This is again your nonsense. I never said that only experienced players will win a cup. You keep creating your nonsense and arguing against it. I suppose it is too much to expect you to know that you cannot take a statement and invert it and argue against that inversion. My principle is simple. Domestic failures do not win international trophies. That does not mean only experienced players win international cups or any of the other nonsenses you create and say that I said. If we have a whole bunch of inexperienced players, bring them on. My condition is that they should not be domestic failures. In this recent test series, I supported Yashasvi, had Jurel in my team from the first test, supported Sarfaraz, and did not want Pujara to be brought back that Kumar was supporting. I supported these inexperienced players because they were domestic successes. The 2007 team was full of players who were domestic successes if not in T20, in ODIs, List-As, etc. None of them were out and out domestic failures. Show me one team that won with domestic failures.

Finally your nonsense brain has accepted the truth. 2007 T20team wasn't picked with domestic one day stats it was picked based on ability. If the team was picked based on domestic one day performances then top run getters at that time like Dogra, Dhawan,Rahane, Jaffer, Goel, Kaif would have been selected who had superior performance in domestic, not Yusuf Pathan or Rohit Sharma who were not even in top 10 run getters. Better not to say about Joginder Sharma. Domestic performance is required in Test & Odis but not in T20s, ability & talent is enough for selection. In longer fotmat, even England won test series against Pak with Rehan who has limited domestic experience and also Bashir, though they lost the test series but a spinner with nothing domestic experience had success against side who are one of the best players of spin.

[prasen9]

Well, it is indeed idiotic and must be very painful to be unable to point to a single domestic failure who has won a WC, leave aside a team made of domestic failures, and still argue some nonsense they create themselves. None of the nonsense above that you create yourself and argue against I have ever said. My point stands since you have failed to provide a single example of a team filled with domestic failures has won a WC. The 2007 team was not a team made of domestic failures Not only that, no other team was filled with domestic failures and won the WC. That does not happen. Will not happen this time.

I have never argued that selectors should not take a flyer on generational talent. In fact, I have argued for Yashasvi for the test team for quite some time even before he had a full domestic dossier.

No domestic failures. Period. It is idiotic to get domestic (and international) failures.

And, btw, one does not need to be a top-10 run getter. That just means you are old when you are a top-10 run-getter. Domestic failures are those who have played at least say 15 innings and have not averaged a certain amount, do not have a certain SR, or runs/over, etc. I don't care about total run getters and centuries, etc. That is the nonsense that you argue using. That just means that you have played many innings and are not terrible.

Rohit Sharma was never a domestic failure. He has performed in the domestics fantastically well throughout his career. He is a failure in SENA tests. Ditto for Yusuf Pathan. He was one of the hardest hitters in the domestics, with very good SR, acceptable average, and good bowling averages, etc. Rohit had a top-notch FC and List-A record and Yusuf had a very solid List-A record with a high SR.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

First of all your full nonsense theory of picking T20 team based on VHT & Ranji wasn't there. Many top performers were there in domestic 50 over tournament who played odis but weren't picked. Players who played the game hardly played any T20 it was the selectors & skipper who prepared a team based on ability. Since none of them had experience of playing T20s your stupid domestic success & failure theory doesn't suits here, otherwise Akash Chopra, Wasim Jaffer, Amol etc. should have been selected for T20 WC. Yusuf played just 4 domestic odi in that season, many more huge domestic experienced players existed, not a single selector should have selected him unless Dhoni relied on his ability. Among others, Raina, Nayar also had above 100 SR but weren't picked. Praveen Kumar had 115 SR and was best with the new ball but he could'nt dumb Joginder with those stats. Ability and multidimmensional quality is put ahead before hifi domestic success that lead the team win the only T20 WC

[Kumar]

Yusuf was thought of as a big T20 player.

Joginder had great credentials as all rounder in domestic cricket. He had played for Indian ODI team as well. See the article below from 2007 that talks about joginder’s performance. And until the finals and last over of semis his performance in that wc was very ordinary. He and Ajit Agarkar were the worst indian bowlers in that wc. He delivered under pressure and there is no doubt about that. And there is no way to measure that.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/jogi ... nce-276253


Rohit Sharma was thought of very highly , so his pick was not of a player that failed in domestic. Identify a player that failed in domestic and was picked for that 2007 team. U could make a borderline case that Joginder did not have overwhelming stats, but I don’t know if we had a betterpace allrounder than him.

How do u identify players who will do well in those elimination games? Do u use their scores in the elimination games of domestic tournament? Or do u randomly select every tom dick and harry and hope he delivers or kick him off to curb?

[Raju Bhai]

Since domestic failure can't win ICC title, domestic greats also can't win title they are trying for long time now. England lost the test series but they got a spinner based on "eye test". India can adopt this eye test way include Sameer Rizvi, Naman Dhir, Akash Madhwal type players.

[Kumar]

https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... 4-9239309/

Article that shows why KL cannot continue as opener and seriously needs a change . His average is pretty good, but having Rohit, KL and Kohli in the same team may not be ideal.i would like to see him come down the order and show what he can do.

[prasen9]

Since domestic failure can't win ICC title, domestic greats also can't win title they are trying for long time now. England lost the test series but they got a spinner based on "eye test". India can adopt this eye test way include Sameer Rizvi, Naman Dhir, Akash Madhwal type players.

No, thank you. I don't want to lose series 1-4. This is the type of nonsense that is irritating. These guys want players to win every match and win the cup. And, the recipe to do that? Is to adopt a failed strategy that England took to disastrous results. I would rather a team get to the semis and finals than get blown out of the park as the English spinners were in this series. This nonsense may have cost them a series. Rashid, Bashir, and Hartley at the end were very bad. They won one test because of a fluke genius of an innings by Ollie Pope. And, I guess Hartley's fluke of an innings. These types of nonsense selections may win you one match but you cannot win five matches in a row as England showed. Thank you but no thanks. We don't want such losers and proven losing strategies for the WC.

England\s domestic greats and West Indies domestic greats won them titles. None of them picked up people from the streets especially people with failed records and won anything.

No stupid tests that results in thrashings. We have had those for long and should not go back to nonsensical selections, parochialism, nepotism, etc. A thoroughly professional, idiot-proof system like Australia's is needed.

Let me repeat. No team ever won with domestic failures. And, no, Rohit, Yusuf, etc. were domestic successes, not failures like Umran, Avesh (in T20Is) etc. I am fine with taking players who are just starting. But, no player who has been there for several years and failed conclusively should be handed a freebie based on some sort of moronic test. As even the two games in the IPL showed, we have enough quality, young players. We should stick to them. Go with the Abhishek, Parags of the world. Not the Umrans.

[karr]

A few more games like today from Shivam Dube and he has to be in the T20 squad. He alone seemed to be playing in a different pitch compared to the rest of CSK, who seemed to show their age in their inability to adapt to the pitch. SRH seemingly learnt from Dube about how to approach the inning and how not to from the rest of CSK. But Dube seemed like he is in a zone and utterly takes spin out of the equation.

[prasen9]

Rayan Parag and Abhishek Sharma have been very good. The selectors are possibly not going to blood these youngsters and that will be a mistake.

Then, Gill and Kohli have performed well so far. Next, Dube, Hardik and Tilak Varma wrt impact stats by ESPN. Followed by Shashank Singh. Interestingly here, Parag, Abhishek, Dube, Hardik, Tilak, and Singh can all bowl. Sanju and Rahul are the leading keepers. Not bad. Add Bumrah, Mayank, Kuldeep to this and we have a good team. But, will we see them?

Anyway, we should wait until the end of the IPL to see which of these young guys are consistent.

[jayakris]

Wasn’t Canada to be removed from this thread name?

YES! And it isn't off-topic. @sameer could you please do the honours?? The World Cup is being played in the West Indies and US -- not Canada.

Haha, I guess Sameer also has no interest in cricket, so hasn't looked at the thread for weeks, like me. Apologies from us Mods.

Changed the thread name.

By the way, are you all getting along in the cricket threads? I see two people calling each other's opinions nonsense, idiotic, and all that, but also continuing their "pleasant exchange", so to say. So I guess all is well and it is just par for the course for discussions on the "gentlemen's game", so we Mods do not have to get involved and bother any of you to calm down ...

Again, sorry for not checking the cricket threads in a while. I seem to get interested only when any world cup matches actually start.