India in South Africa, December 2023

[Kumar]

BCCI would have been pilloried if this match was in India. Also, players nowadays don’t appear to have skills to play out the new ball. They are resorting to white ball tactics . At this rate, test cricket will become glorified two innings 50 over game.

@Prasen, we are unable to hide Shreyas weakness to short pitch balls except in Indian conditions. He needs to address his short ball weakness before playing abroad. I would play him on Indian pitches.

As to Gill, he needs to absolutely go. He is not a great player of spin either.

For England series, I would definitely have Shreyas in the team, but not Gill.

Jaiswal was the most disappointing performance. I hope he works on what went wrong and come back stronger.

[Kumar]

@sharmaji, Sarfaraz khan failed in a dulep trophy match where pacers ruled the roost. He plays as number 5 batsmann in mumbai which is typically a batsman paradise. Why do u think he is going to be successful on this quick RSA pitches?

U are harping on his average on flat RSA pitches aided by a not out while ignoring his failure in other A matches. In last tour in 2021, he came to bat 5 down after 40 overs when he scored 71 runs . That was his best innings. His average for A team is probably in low 40s.

I have no problem giving him a chance and would have actually welcomed selecting him over Shreyas Iyer for this match. But to imply that he is diva in overseas conditions is just cherry picking stats.

Look at the India A matches played in last 5 years. We have played 7 matches. 5 in RSA and 2 in NZ. Look at the score card for this matches . Both the NZ matches, India scored like 400 runs with matches ending in tame draw.

[prasen9]

@Prasen, we are unable to hide Shreyas weakness to short pitch balls except in Indian conditions. He needs to address his short ball weakness before playing abroad. I would play him on Indian pitches.

Every player has deficiencies. Why do we fixate on such things? Short pitch balls for batters. Bowling speed for pacers. Etc. Rohit has serious deficiencies against short-pitched balls but he also scores some runs - not enough to hide this deficiency. He averages around 35 against short-pitched balls and 45 overall, quite a drop. But, because he looks good when he plays the pulls and hooks, people ignore that.

Gill has deficiencies wrt gap between bat and pad.

A whole armada of them have deficiencies outside the off-stump and to short-pitched bowling. Why single out Iyer alone picking one metric?

Rahul is not a quality bat either and has maybe temperament and technical issues. He can only be supported as a keeper.

Let them play. Look at the overall production. I am all for horses for courses. But, we truly don't have batters who are proven quality abroad. Pujara was perhaps. Rahane barely was. I'd give Shreyas one more series abroad. Gill none.

[prasen9]

U are harping on his average on flat RSA pitches aided by a not out while ignoring his failure in other A matches.

Actually, I would say "hampered" by a not out. Not outs actually don't boost averages, they reduce averages. The reasoning is as follows. Say, you score 45 runs in one innings versus 45 runs in two innings with one not out. The second is harder to achieve. The reasoning is that in that case, you had to start two innings from scratch. Batsmen are most vulnerable from say balls 1 to 25 in their innings and then the scoring gets easier for them because they get habituated to the pitch, bowler, etc. So, you will see that a lot more outs in balls 1 to 25 than from balls 25 to 50 say. Thus, getting a high average using not outs is actually harder than not having not outs. Not outs rob you the chance of getting easier runs when you have got set. Assuming you have played 25 balls and are not out. If you are not out like Iyer is in I2 of this match scoring 4 runs or whatever, then it is a wash. You have added only 3-4 runs and yes, you have weathered two new innings but the second one not so many balls. So, if you have added runs via not out, then you have worked harder and deserve more kudos.

Wrt your previous critique, yes, Sarfraz has not really shone. But, we don't really have the data because we don't really have anyone who did shine either and we can be confident of playing the moving ball. None of our juniors have. We need to pick the best from among our juniors and give them 15 dismissals at least. Then, judge.

I would go with Yashasvi, Mayank, Rohit, Kohli, Iyer, Jadeja, Rahul, Ashwin, Axar for the England tests. If you want, you can try Sarfraz, Rinku, etc.

[Rajkumar Sharma]

@sharmaji, Sarfaraz khan failed in a dulep trophy match where pacers ruled the roost. He plays as number 5 batsmann in mumbai which is typically a batsman paradise. Why do u think he is going to be successful on this quick RSA pitches?

Except Pujara & Rahane none bats in County in offseason in four dayers or you can say Vihari, so all those who will come to the team will be from.batsman's paradise.

U are harping on his average on flat RSA pitches aided by a not out while ignoring his failure in other A matches. In last tour in 2021, he came to bat 5 down after 40 overs when he scored 71 runs . That was his best innings. His average for A team is probably in low 40s.

So, we can take Shreyas, who has played just 2 game in SENA and scored 77 runs for India A ? If u accept Sarfaraz's failure then you also need to accept Shreyas has done nothing for India A in SENA, all he has done is domestic performances like Jaiswal in flat tracks. System of selection should'nt differenciate based on individuals. WI isn't a serious test team at present moment.

I have no problem giving him a chance and would have actually welcomed selecting him over Shreyas Iyer for this match. But to imply that he is diva in overseas conditions is just cherry picking stats.

Can you name any newcommmer who is diva in overseas by not siting just one innings ?

Look at the India A matches played in last 5 years. We have played 7 matches. 5 in RSA and 2 in NZ. Look at the score card for this matches . Both the NZ matches, India scored like 400 runs with matches ending in tame draw.

Gill got picked for that double ton and till now not a single other performer got picked for the team, specially the bowlers, allrounders. You can't pick the new commers on few matches in SENA, they should play more for India A & County to prove their point of valid selection.

[PKBasu]

I was watching the match yesterday, first on TV and then briefly on my phone (using Disney Hotstar), then I walked my daughter over to her cousin's place, and had switched off the match with the score on 153/4. Ten minutes later when I switched it on again, the score was 153 all out. Extraordinary!

I have to say it was incredibly irresponsible of Jadeja to get out like that. We did have a very long tail in this match, but Jadeja should have done better, as should Rahul have.

So we did everything to allow SA back into the match, including not giving Siraj a chance to bowl today from the end where he got all his wickets from -- and instead over-bowling Mukesh Kumar today despite his ineffectiveness. Thankfully Bumrah did reasonably well from the wicket-taking end, and the batsmen did a decent job of making the 79 runs without too much of a fuss. In the end, it is impressive that we have drawn our latest series in South Africa and England, and beaten Australian twice in succession in Australia. Now, if only we can learn to hold our nerve in ICC trophy finals!

[prasen9]

New Zealand is the final frontier?

[prasen9]

You can't pick the new commers on few matches in SENA, they should play more for India A & County to prove their point of valid selection.

As we all agreed, we have no proven commodity. We should not pick the failing seniors and wish we win. Give the juniors, minus Gill, a fair run. Keep the ones that cut it. Move on to the next set of juniors. In the meantime, have lots of India-A tours with one set of team members who you think are the best bet. For example, the next gen spinner and next gen keeper should play several matches to build rapport. Ditto for MO batters. They should develop rapport so that when they play for India, they can take the quick singles, etc. Solid planning wins cups.

[PKBasu]

New Zealand is the final frontier?

Already conquered 55 years ago, before any of the other frontiers

But, yes, it is for the current generation.

[prasen9]

In 2008/9, I think we won. Thereafter, we have had two lost series. So, I'd take a draw in New Zealand. But, first, we need a 5-0 in England if we are to be competitive for the Test Championship.