FIH Men's Pro League

A forum to discuss Indian hockey and the disarray it is in despite the promising new professional PHL series.

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prasen9
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by prasen9 »

Sin Hombre wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:42 am
prasen9 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:22 am Actually, we have been consistently in the top 2 in test cricket, top 4 in ODIs and top-4-6 in T20Is. I'd actually put more probability that we will make the WC semis in cricket in ODIs say than the hockey team making the semis in the Olympics.
Cricket has 3 competitive teams. Even with that, we have won zero ICC trophies in a decade.

Way more than 3 countries have including multiple times. Our cricket performance under Kohli/Rohit has been an embarrassment.
Tests: New Zealand, Australia. Practically, if the match is in England, we do not have any chance to win against a top test country.

ODI: England, Australia

T20: England, Australia, West Indies, Sri Lanka

Cricket, especially in the T20 format, has more than 3 countries. Nobody won multiple times in the last decade in one format. Across formats, Australia is the best. England is good in the shorter format.

Hockey

Olympics: Netherlands, Great Britain

World Cup: Germany, Belgium, Australia

Five teams have won the title in hockey in the last decade out of about five tournaments. In cricket, 5 teams have won in about 8 tournaments. Not very much of a difference although yes, in cricket, we seem to have two teams Australia and England who have won multiple titles. That is because it is perhaps 8 tournaments in 10 years whereas in hockey it is 5 tournaments in 10 years we are looking at. That means, when you manage to build your team well, in hockey you have to be good for longer periods whereas in cricket you have more chances and can win multiple tournaments because they are closer together in time once you have a great team.

In hockey, we have never made the semis of the WC in the last decade. In the Olympics, we made one semi and one medal - a bronze, as we know.

In cricket, we made two finals of the test championships. And 2/2 in the semis for the 2015 and 2019 WCs.

Hockey has just marginally more good teams. The cricket team has performed much better. For long periods, it has held the #1 ranking or #2. Hockey has been much lower.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by prasen9 »

Winning a cup is a very stupid standard. I would rather a team win consistently over the years than in one fluke match. When we are talking about 4 or 5 matches in a decade. Or 4 or 5 tournaments to be fairer, then it means that luck plays a considerable role. Even if a team wins 60% of their matches against top opposition, which is what good to great teams win. I would rather look at the overall record. However, I understand that the human brain is not purely rational and is more sensationalist. Our hunter-gatherer days means we care a lot about whether we get the largest chunk of meat for survival reasons, etc. So, we seem to care about cups and set up knock-out tournaments because we like entertainment and sensationalism of a match where one animal dies. Lions do this to this day too. My ideal tournament would be a long-term league like the WTC league. The final is meaningless or more accurately not that meaningful to me although I would rather we win the finals than lose. However, to me it is not the end of the world. I'd rather trade a much higher win-loss record over a decade than a win in 4 or 5 of these sensationalized matches.

That is why I like chess tournaments without finals. That finds true winners.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by Saffron Lenin »

Dutch dominate in Belgium as FIH Hockey Pro League goes down to the wire.

https://www.fih.hockey/events/fih-pro-l ... o-the-wire


Seems like Nederlands is going to defend its title!!
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

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We are currently at 3rd position with 3 points difference between us and Belgium. Belgium has 2 matches remaining, one with against Spain and other against Nederlands.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

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FIH Pro League 2022-23: Indian Men’s Hockey Team Finishes Fourth

https://pragativadi.com/fih-pro-league- ... es-fourth/
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

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Netherlands successfully defend its title.....
GB finishes second.
Belgium finishes third.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by Saffron Lenin »

Summary of India's journey in FIH Pro league:

Mini-tournament 1: India defeats NZ in both matches. Lost to spain in first match followed by win in shoot-out.

Mini-2: Best mini-tournament of India. We defeat Germany in both matches. We beat Australia too, one in time and other in shoot-out.

Mini-3: We lost England and Belgium in our first 2 matches. Then, win good match against Belgium and beat British in shoot-out.

Mini-4: Won both matches against Argentina but lost both matches to Netherlands.

My match of the tournament would be Ind vs Aus match 1, where we beat Australia after a long long time, followed by india vs belgium where we beat them 5-1.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by srini »

From ssp's observation Netherlands squad was new and they still dominated and won the league. What happened to Australia which dropped to 7th position? Did they also experiment, any one who remembered their squad regular names...plz comment. From that we can figure if experimenting is a good thing in this league. Thanks
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by arjun2761 »

My impression was that the FIH pro league was meant to replace friendlies (i.e., be a more structured set of matches instead of random friendlies) and was to be used for development purposes. However, the "importance" in the world ranking of these matches are quite high especially factoring in the number of matches. Each match has an importance of 5 which is only slightly less than the WC/Oly qualifiers and Continental Championships which have an importance of 6. The WC/Oly Games have an importance of 10.

So, experimenting too much in these matches can impact your world ranking quite a bit.

https://www.fih.hockey/static-assets/pd ... y-2020.pdf
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by Saffron Lenin »

FIH Hockey Pro League 2023-2024: Argentina – Great Britain to open the show

As already announced in April, season 5 of the FIH Hockey Pro League – ‘Hockey at its Best’ - will include six “mini-tournaments”:

Santiago del Estero, Argentina (6-11 December 2023)
Buenos Aires, Argentina (14-19 February 2024)
Bhubaneswar and Rourkela, India (3-25 February 2024)
Antwerp, Belgium (22 May-2 June 2024)
Lee Valley, Great Britain (1-12 June 2024)
Utrecht and Amsterdam, Netherlands (22-30 June 2024)

https://www.fih.hockey/events/fih-pro-l ... n-the-show
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by arjun2761 »

Interesting twist! Looks like they are optimizing for decent weather. South America and India during the northern hemisphere winter and Europe during the northern hemisphere spring/summer.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by prasen9 »

As they should. Looks like a good idea. Hope this catches on. It would be better if they called this part of a World Series with a Year End Cup awarded to an overall winner. That would make the interest go for the whole year and all matches important, etc.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by prasen9 »

So, our teams are going to Spain. The matches are back to back on 15th and 16th and then 19th and 20th. So, hockey does not really require rest? Did anyone study this? I suppose people are not getting injured. But, such scheduling is also putting much more of an importance on fitness. The Europeans have really made the game a fitness test.

Teams depart for Europe

Also, this seems to be different from the dates Saffron posted above.

And, the FIH website Schedule is talking about the next matches being in February.

So, I am totally confused what is when.
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by sameerph »

These matches being played on 15th and 16th and then 19th and 20th are part of 5 nation tournament in Valencia, Spain. This is not part of FIH pro league.

This is from official Hockey India website-

https://www.hockeyindia.org/news/indian ... encia-2023
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Re: FIH Men's Pro League

Post by prasen9 »

Thanks Sameer. Sorry for the wrong thread then. Please move it to the main hockey thread if you have the time. Thanks.
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