World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Yes, reducing a player to one number is really problematic. Reality is complex. But, if we have to choose one number, that is perhaps the best available number. I am using ESPN's impact scores because I think they are better than using SR (with average qualifiers) or runs/over and average for bowlers, etc. All of these numbers are imperfect. Some more than others.

I tend to discount form because they are small sample sizes, especially, if you take out the matches against the minnows. Wrt Upendra, my thinking is that maybe he can be good because he has at least beaten up the minnows. The others are bad even after playing against the minnows. So, their upside is really limited in test cricket.

The sacking of Saha was stupid. He had no problem with Pant being given the forerunner slot and his being the backup. But, asking him to retire was stupid. What does Dravid gain from that? Nothing. We gain nothing if a player formally retires. We always need to plan for backups and have plans for when the backups are not good enough especially if they are untested/unproven commodities with a so-so domestic record. It makes no sense.

Ditto for disrespecting Ishant. To a much less extent.

To be clear, I am all for dropping Saha and Ishant and trying others. But, don't close the door forever, because we do not know what the future holds. I am not arguing for Ishant to be brought back but if we have say 2-3 injuries in the next month, then he could indeed be the person to call and not some clueless youngster. If you think Avesh is ready, fine call Avesh. But, what if Avesh is injured too. That is, one never knows and should never close paths for the future may bring unexpected calamities and you may need that path. Stupid decision by Dravid.
Raju Bhai
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:25 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Raju Bhai »

Ishan Kishan injured, team needs a wicket keeper who can bat at the middle order in WTC final, Jitesh Sharma should replace Kishan.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Jitesh Sharma is crap in FC cricket. We don't need more crap. He is good in T20 cricket. We can consider him there.
Raju Bhai
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:25 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Raju Bhai »

Jitesh Sharma is better then Saha. Selection of Saha means 80s & 90s where India used to have Keeper who can bat but not a perfect batsman where team can rely upon....Mongia, MSK, Ratra etc. etc.
User avatar
Kumar
Authors
Authors
Posts: 7131
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:59 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Kumar »

I give you two players.

Player A has average of 42FC (46 oexcluding test)
Player Bhas average of 25FC

Let us pick player B, because he is a specialist batsman.
User avatar
Kumar
Authors
Authors
Posts: 7131
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:59 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Kumar »

Mukherjee Babu wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:36 pm Every countries has their own popular T20 leagues but never seen their media and fans giving massive hype to their international players. Its good to say good things about new talents and their efforts in facing international stars. Gill & Kohli has broken the media through their IPL performance in another way they are successfull in receiving kindness in upcomming failures against Aussies in WTC final.
Responding to post in IPL, Gill is not known to bat well in swinging conditions. If KL had been fit, Gill any not even have figured in playing 11. Our best bet for this test match is two of Pujara, Kohli or Rahane to score runs. Even PKB probably does not truly believe that this indian team will win.

May be if there is rain, we can escape with draw if the play gets abandoned for more than 3 days.

Our test team is probably on a downward spiral, unless someone like Jaiswal, Sarfaraz or another person injects some freshness to this squad. Our pace bowlers have been dropping and too injured, so i foresee sone difficult path ahead for testteam
Rajkumar Sharma
Member
Member
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:10 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

BCCI should select 15 best performers from domestic season & IPL and allow them to play English County during end of the season.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Let our domestic players play in any league they can. That will make players who can win abroad.

Jitesh is better than Saha only in T20s, not in red ball cricket. There Saha is double the batsman.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Kumar wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:17 pm I give you two players.

Player A has average of 42FC (46 oexcluding test)
Player Bhas average of 25FC

Let us pick player B, because he is a specialist batsman.
I love these. I hereby christen these the Kumar Tests. :-)

BTW, so Jaiswal has replaced Gaikwad in the standbys for the team and is going to London. So, Jaiswal is the next in line for a test batting debut. Can't complain. He thoroughly deserves it at this point. Of course, that means the selectors are not going to select Sarfraz. He has to wait for the selection committee to change.
Rajkumar Sharma
Member
Member
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:10 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Yes and full stop to Panchal & Easwaran
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Seems like.
Rajkumar Sharma
Member
Member
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:10 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Jaiswal is very much lucky. He along with Easwaran, Panchal scored plenty in domestic. Easwaran & Panchal played for India A in testing conditions of SENA whereas Jaiswal just played in Bangladesh for india A. Huge difference in performance against the quality of opposition team and conditions. Its the IPL fuel which diminished the other two prolofic scorers and get him.selected for WTC Squad. Its proved again IPL impact is deciding Test squad.
User avatar
Kumar
Authors
Authors
Posts: 7131
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:59 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Kumar »

The regular openers who played for India from 2013 thru now (who have gotten at least 15 test matches).
Vijay, Rahul, Dhawan, Rohit , MM Agarwal, Shubman Gill

Less than 5 matches - Prithvi Shaw, Parthiv Patel, Gambhir and Mukund (Vihari, Pujara round up the list).

Gill and Rahul has the lowest average at 33 and 34 among the first list.
Mukund and Gambhir has poor average at 27 and 16 among the second list. Gambhir has a very limited sample size (tail end of his career).

Mayank has been exemplary in indian pitches with average of 69, so should walk in everytime we play in india.

Based on this data, we can make a case that KL Rahul, Gill and Mukund has performed poorly and Dhawan / Vijay mediocre. Mukund has a FC average of 47 which is very similar to Panchal and Easwaran. He got 2 matches and was dropped considering that they had similar averages and he was dropped quickly after underperforming.

Murali Vijay probably benefitted from his IPL prowess and CSK connection and got a look in.. but his performance SENA is not shabby (has an average of 68). In fact in the past 10 years all of the openers have an average of greater than 48 in those countries (shocking). How do you really drop this players who have performed significantly better in SENA countries to pick players who performed primarily in domestic cricket?

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... pe=batting

so they were kind of unlucky that Indian openers have not been bad the past 10 years. Name a opener in that list who got an opportunity with a domestic record that is way worse than Panchal or Easwaran ? Both Panchal and Easwaran have been unlucky that their peers have just been a little better than them and have been lucky enough to capitalize on their opportunities.

The only recent selection that we all agree is SKY selection for the test match. We all can agree that SKY was primarily selected off his T20 performance. And Sarfaraz seriously has a case that he was robbed. I agree that IPL is getting lot more visibility to test team selection and that is unfair. Considering the performance of our middle order in recent years, non-selection of Sarfaraz is an absolute travesty.

Coming to Jaiswal. Jaiswal has been an absolute stud along with being lucky. His FC performance right from get go has been off the charts. He has shown that he can hit international bowlers well in IPL. He has succeeded at every level (U19, IPL, FC). His only knock is that his sample size is relatively small, but there is very little weakness to poke at? May be his susceptibility to short pitch bowling ? Shreyas Iyer's career appears to come unraveled because of that, let us see how Jaiswal handles that. Jaiswal average in his debut Ranji season is 83 run (if you ignore the 5 run one inning in 2019 season). . When a player performs spectacularly right from start, they are always going to get some doors opened.
Mukherjee Babu
Member
Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:47 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by Mukherjee Babu »

I think Jaiswal deserve India call but Mukund, Easwaran, Panchal not getting picked despite performing is also a point. But BCCI is doing right thing in increasing domestic cricket salaries.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19423
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: World Test Championship final 2021-23 (The Oval)

Post by prasen9 »

Kumar has an excellent analysis. I wonder whether we should speak of SENA in one go anymore. Australia has the most batting pitches days after the drop-in pitches were introduced. Or at least had when I last checked about 2-3 years ago. So, should we consider success in Australia? Or should we look for SEN being the most challenging conditions?
Post Reply