ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by VReddy »

jayakris wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:15 pm We are reduced to pinning our national hopes on 13 and 14 year old kids who are not even living in India.
There is also 12 yr old Vedant Mohan in Spain - he is pretty good. Indian Tennis is oozing with world class talent at the sub-junior level these days.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by sameerph »

Vihaan Reddy beat Arjun Pandit 64 63 to win a title in his first tournament. Except for first round where he lost a set against an Hungarian opponent, Vihaan just thrashed everyone else in straight sets. That is amazing for a 13 year old playing in his first tournament.

Girls title was won by 14 year Kazakh girl.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by Sin Hombre »

jayakris wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:15 pm ^^ Why do you think that? If he goes to the top like Nishesh Basavareddy, would he play for India? If you know more, that is good news though...
You are way better off being a middling tour regular as an Indian in terms of sponsorships and media attention (see Sania Mirza with one tour title in singles and a career high rank of 27 - such career accomplishments barely get attention in stronger tennis countries).
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

Totally agree, Sin Hombre. I have always believed that, but I don't know if Indian-origin kids/parents from abroad think like that. Prakash, Shikha, Neha and Sunitha did calculate that way at one time though - and they got some name, fame and exposure that they would not have got in the US.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by VReddy »

jayakris wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:12 pm Totally agree, Sin Hombre. I have always believed that, but I don't know if Indian-origin kids/parents from abroad think like that. Prakash, Shikha, Neha and Sunitha did calculate that way at one time though - and they got some name, fame and exposure that they would not have got in the US.
Jay: I think the examples you shared are contrary to what you are advocating. None of them gave up the American passport I thought? I think any of the existing Indian origin kids would play for India, like the names you quoted, if passport requirement is removed.

Anyway the names we are concerned about now - Manas, Vihaan and Vedant are all Indian Citizens and 2 of them in the capable hands of IMG + Piatti / Soto.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

VReddy wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:06 pm Jay: I think the examples you shared are contrary to what you are advocating. None of them gave up the American passport I thought? I think any of the existing Indian origin kids would play for India, like the names you quoted, if passport requirement is removed.
You are right; the rules were different earlier and citizenship was not a requirement to play for India (only ITF needed to approve it, based on certain criteria and the two federations agreeing or something like that, iirc).

I was speaking from the point of view of the kids knowing that they are becoming American citizens at some point soon. Most Indians in the US (who came as highly educated workers to the US, which is what applies to most of these kids' parents, I assume) would become US citizens in the end. They are typically waiting for the citizenship to be official, as there is significant time delay. I assume those like Krisha and Vihan to be in that category. If that is not the case, and they know that they are not in the pipeline for citizenship, I am sure they will all play for India. That is what I meant when I said above, "if you know anything more, that is good news" in Vihan's case.

If the parents are in long-time assignment in the US but are Indian citizens who are required to return later to India or simply aren't applying for US citizenship, of course, their kids will play for India. If the parents know that they are becoming US citizens (most frequently the case), I don't think they will play for India. My point was that those kids should consider keeping the Indian citizenship even in that case, to see if they can play under Indian colors, because they can get the US citizenship later too (though delays could be substantial).
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by sameerph »

jayakris wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:07 pm
I was speaking from the point of view of the kids knowing that they are becoming American citizens at some point soon. Most Indians in the US (who came as highly educated workers to the US, which is what applies to most of these kids' parents, I assume) would become US citizens in the end. They are typically waiting for the citizenship to be official, as there is significant time delay. I assume those like Krisha and Vihan to be in that category. If that is not the case, and they know that they are not in the pipeline for citizenship, I am sure they will all play for India. That is what I meant when I said above, "if you know anything more, that is good news" in Vihan's case.

If the parents are in long-time assignment in the US but are Indian citizens who are required to return later to India or simply aren't applying for US citizenship, of course, their kids will play for India. If the parents know that they are becoming US citizens (most frequently the case), I don't think they will play for India. My point was that those kids should consider keeping the Indian citizenship even in that case, to see if they can play under Indian colors, because they can get the US citizenship later too (though delays could be substantial).
But as you mentioned there is significant time delay in getting the US citizenship. From what I have heard it can take about 15 years or more to get citizenship. So, in case of Vihaan and Krisha when they are say about 18-20 and if they are still in waiting list for US citizenship, that may be a time for them to take a decision. Of course, as of now they can still play for Indian junior teams in junior team events as nothing prevents them right ?

They are not in same category as say Nishesh Basavareddy who was probably born in US as he already has US citizenship.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

Sure they can play for Indian junior teams. If they are asked by AITA, I would imagine they will play.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by arjun2761 »

The hype around Manas is based on him still being very young having just turned 15. However, would like to see him start beating the middling juniors at some point this year.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

^^^ Yes, and he has grown a little faster than the kids his age too. So, we just need to see where he gets to. Till he starts getting wins against top-25 (or at least top-50) juniors, I won't take him seriously.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by sameerph »

Manas is still 7th among those born in 2007 and after in ITF junior rankings. But, 300 of his 675 points have come from just 1 tournament Asian juniors title at home in Pune where he did not have to beat any players ranked in top 100 then. He had 1 win at Australian open where he beat an Australian wild card ranked outside top 100. Just realised that he may not have beaten anyone ranked in top 100 in ITF juniors.

He seems to have played quite well in India where he won a J2 early last year and Asian juniors in September last year. Also played a very competitive match in Pune ATP against Mmoh. But, outside India his record has not been that good in ITF juniors so far.

He has to start winning these matches now. Probably needs to play a lot more matches than he currently is I think.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

^^^ Exactly. The posted videos of some points he played abroad look very good, but tennis is much more than just looking good in some points. You have to win matches against good players. He has some tools and unusual abilities for rallying and shot-making, no doubt, but we have to wait till he starts beating top-100 junior players before we can think of getting excited. Need to beat top-50 players by at least next year and go top-20 himself and then we can really get excited. Or just start winning M15 and M25 main draw matches soon, and that would do too.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by VReddy »

Sin Hombre wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:37 pm
jayakris wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:15 pm ^^ Why do you think that? If he goes to the top like Nishesh Basavareddy, would he play for India? If you know more, that is good news though...
You are way better off being a middling tour regular as an Indian in terms of sponsorships and media attention (see Sania Mirza with one tour title in singles and a career high rank of 27 - such career accomplishments barely get attention in stronger tennis countries).
jayakris wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:12 pm Totally agree, Sin Hombre.
There are few more considerations which could be considered

1. Visa hassles: Player will invariably end up missing 4-6 key tourneys because they cant plan last minute trips
2. WCs: USTA ensures you get a leg-up constantly for the next level. Ex: 300 rank player gets WC to US Open qualifying.. 300 rank players get wc to Challenger main draws and so on. Someone like Govind Nanda might never play Grand Slams if he switched to India
3. Maximising talent: You get the best USTA centres access to facilities. The 20-30 WCs across your career. USTA sends its coaches to support juniors at Grand Slams - practice with each other and so on. Someone who ends up being top-50 in USA will end up being top-100 from India because of lack of above opportunities
4. Ethics: What example would they set as role models to their community? Would you want a neighbor who declines Army Major role because she/he gets Army General role in another country. If we see representing country as a private job that we can switch to whoever gives me promotion then fair.

Lot more other considerations exist which means you are eventually not making any more money.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

^^^ That is all correct. Our point was that somebody who gets to top-30 in the US system might only get to top-75 in the Indian system, but could be much more famous (and can even make more money from India). Rajeev Ram has a better record than LP in singles and perhaps even in doubles, but is Rajeev considered a legend like LP is (by at least 1.4 billion people) or has he even made as much money as LP has? (I don't know, I think he probably hasn't). Does anybody outside of hard core tennis fans even heard of a player called Rajeev Ram in the US?

Yes, there are other considerations. Agree on that.
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Re: ITF Junior circuit 2023 India

Post by jayakris »

Meanwhile, the Kazakh players in the girls' draw have destroyed Indians at the Dehradun J30. There were 5 Kazakh girls (including the 2nd and 4th seeds) there and all 5 of them have reached the QFs today. Only two Indian girls made the QF, despite the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 8th seeds being Indians. Only the 8th seed Nanika Narender Reddy Bendram (last week's runner-up) has made the QF among those seeds, along with a 14 year old qualifier Angel Patel who upset the 5th seeded Indian-Aussie, Alisha Kumar. The 3rd seed Maaya Rajeswaran went down in a 3-set match to a Kazakhi too.

All clear on the boys' side, however. All eight in the QFs are Indians, including the seemingly unbeatable 13 year old, Vihaan Reddy. But only 3 seeds made the QF though, despite all eight seeds being Indians.
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