India in South Africa, 2021-22

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prasen9
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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

Post by prasen9 »

India will win this one. Horrible batting from our batters though. If the selectors do not kick out Pujara and Rahane, we should have a nationwide strike. :p


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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0, 0 and 2 from the last 3 was absolutely pathetic. They never looked like hanging around. What has happened to all that talk of the tail-enders learning to bat? For once, I think we would have been better served playing Ishant in this test ahead of Umesh.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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South Africa got 47 runs by drinks for the loss of 1 wicket. Advantage RSA :-(


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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Umpire Marais Erasmus (considered the best in the world) gave Elgar out LBW when the team score was 61/1. But it was overturned by DRS on the basis of some very bizarre replays. Erasmus himself was heard muttering 'no way that was going over'. In the end Elgar fell to Bumrah in the last over of the day. Had Ashwin's LBW shout been (correctly) upheld 40 runs earlier, the match may have gone the other way by the end of today with perhaps another 2-3 wickets down.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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I had hopes at the beginning of the innings. But, the pitch is not that bad to have 8 wickets fall for a 100 more. It may be close but RSA will win. Why our bowlers run out of steam in the second innings of a match if the pitch does not drastically deteroriate is unknown. Fitness?


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

Post by Kumar »

The problem is pretty much except for Kohli, no one Is in form. Pant sowed up in last match.

My respect for Kohli is actually more after this test series. If he had just shown a little patience and let Pant score runs, we may have had a fighting chance. We will probably loose the last test in england as well. Our batting strength is pretty dry.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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The selectors must drop the deadwood pair in the MO. If after averaging, what 20 and 22 (?) over a three test series, albeit low-scoring, people are not dropped, then I do not know how much lower one has to go. This has been going on over 3 years now, at least for Pujara if I recall correctly.

The reason South Africa is winning is because they made the changes. PKB called them transitional. I would take transitional to geriatric any day. Anyway, the (relatively) younger guard Vihari, Rahul, and Pant at least contributed some. Among the oldies Kohli was pretty good but the others were horrible. We should do away with Pujara, Rahane and Mayank. Maybe you can argue for a platoon of Mayank (India), Rahane (abroad) to be given a bit more rope. No Pujara. We have had enough of him.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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I know I am repeating things ad nauseum but I just can't get over this. This was a good chance with this bowling attack. In some sense, this shows that South Africa with their youngsters, who have largely performed well: Marco Jansen and KP, who looked bad initially but quickly righted ship, have been great. That has perhaps been the difference. We kept the deadwood and they have almost sunk our ship. Let's see if Shami and Bumrah have any magic. But, I'd say its South Africa's game to lose by an overwhelming margin.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

Post by SaniaFan »

While the Elgar decision looked and still looks horrendous and I can understand the disappointment of Indian players but their behavior on the field after that was utterly disgusting. They behaved like brats. They are professional crickets and the behavior was unbecoming of that. Kohli should be severely punished for this. Also Ashwin and KL. I hope they are banned for some matches. This is not acceptable!!!

BTW I expect him to be punished this time as his terms with BCCI president are also not great!!


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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So taking stock, we had three batsmen Kohli, Rahul, and Pant put their hands up the latter two inconsistently.

We had horrendous batting by a bunch of people, who batted like a #11 batsman. Thakur, Shami, Yadav, Siraj. This is unacceptable. Ashwin batted like a #9 batsman and Bumrah like maybe a #9-10. This meant rapid demises in all of our innings. That is unacceptable again.

Pujara, Agarwal, and Rahane were total failures and batted like #7-#8 batsmen.

With so many tailenders and only three batters, you are bound to lose.

But, our bowlers barring Shami, Bumrah, and Thakur failed. Those three were pretty good to outstanding but failed in two crucial 4th innings chases. Thakur was seriously underbowled. Shami and Bumrah bowled 102-104 overs and Thakur 72, if I remember correctly. Umesh/Siraj was overbowled as was Ashwin. They were totally useless in the larger scheme of things.

So you have three bowlers who bat like #10-11 in these conditions and 3 batters of which two are fickle. Very sorry performance if you look at it objectively.

Although none of us called for it unequivocally and were hemming and hawing, in hindsight, we should certainly have played Vihari and perhaps Iyer to see if they can cut it. Opportunity lost and we will lose future series because we do not know if they can cut it and will try them. :-(


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

Post by Atithee »

We have only one problem—IPL. It’s at the root of all our shortcomings. Ok, most. Ok, batting problems. Just look around rest of the nations. Whoever isn’t prioritizing IPL is generally in a better position.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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SaniaFan wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 am While the Elgar decision looked and still looks horrendous and I can understand the disappointment of Indian players but their behavior on the field after that was utterly disgusting. They behaved like brats. They are professional crickets and the behavior was unbecoming of that. Kohli should be severely punished for this. Also Ashwin and KL. I hope they are banned for some matches. This is not acceptable!!!

BTW I expect him to be punished this time as his terms with BCCI president are also not great!!
Kohli gives clean chit to him and his teams behavior!!! Nobody else talked about it!!! That's some clout.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spo ... 901408.cms


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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I was trying to stay out of the issue because I did not see it live. But, I watched the video in the article SaniaFan linked. There are two issues here:

1. An accusation that the television commentators are trying to catch the Indians shining the ball with saliva, which is not allowed but doing no such thing when the South Africans are bowling and fielding. I think that was very apt if that is the truth and there possibly is some truth to it. By calling it out, they are putting pressure on the television producers who may be consciously or subconsciously biased. I think they should have used the stumps mike much earlier to talk about it. But, as it happens with grievances, people do not say anything, it piles up, and then when the breaking point reaches everything comes out.

2. In this case, Erasmus himself made a comment. It is rare and unusual for an umpire to comment like this. So, it must have been an exasperating decision.

Our cricketers were complaining about the "whole country against 11" and I think it was the right thing to do if they were being affected by the conscious and subconscious decisions of the TV producers and the umpires. They did not use any swear words, etc.

On the other hand, I found the behavior of Siraj when he threw the ball at Bavuma and subsequent comments by Thakur, etc., or the comments are the end of the second match where we were being trashed in I4 to be obnoxious and cheap. If you are losing, you suck it up and don't throw tantrums.

In this incident, I think it was very justified and what they did was within the bounds what is acceptable, imho. I understand each person plays the game differently. SaniaFan's boundary may be more dignified (Rahane-like) and mine is perhaps more street-fighter style (Kohli-like).


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

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So, are we an old team or a young one? Are we transitioning or polishing a set XI in ODIs? Looking at the age distribution.

Old: Dhawan (36), Ashwin (35), Kohli (33), Jayant, Bhuvi (33)
Young: Kishan (23), Pant, Ruturaj (24), PK (25), VI (27)

So, we have two old off-spinning allrounders. I guess Sundar is injured. A pace-bowling allrounder. And, an opening bat and a top order bat among the oldies. We need to plan on replacing these. There is Ruturaj but who is the MO bat?

Kishan is a good understudy to Pant. Pant is not that good in ODIs but not totally terrible either. I would like to see how good or bad Kishan is in these largely meaningless ODIs. Rest Pant. Would not mind playing Ruturaj and VI either. PK, I think is terrible and we should first try people like Saini, Siraj, DLC, and Thakur to see if they can cut it.

I'd go with: Rahul, Dhawan/Ruturaj, Kohli, Shreyas, Surya, Kishan/Pant, V. Iyer, Ashwin, Bhuvi, Chahal, Bumrah.

I am not a big fan of Saini, Thakur, Krishna, Siraj, and DLC in ODIs. They have been hit badly in the past. If they play, hope they have learned to bowl better. Siraj supposedly revamped things.

If we do not want two spinners, then among these, I'd maybe go with Krishna for Ashwin because he brings in his height assuming he is in form in the nets. It is difficult to say who is fit and in form among Krishna, DLC, Thakur, and Siraj. Thakur should be ready. I'd get him for his bat but I already got Venkatesh and weakened the bowling a bit. So, maybe a tall fast bowler in Krishna would be good. But, Krishna, Chahal, Bumrah will be a long tail.


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Re: India in South Africa, 2021-22

Post by Kumar »

I am so disappointed that Kohli has stepped down. I have been the biggest detractor of Kohlii’s captaincy, and even advocated for Rahane to take over after Australia series.i have to say that Kohli has been the best test captain for india. There is no doubt. I think Rahane would have been a good choice in Kohli’s absence, but with his current form he is not suitable. I don’t think KL fits the bill. He is not an automatic in the test side, so we are kind of in trouble. Rohit has too many fitness questions. I am thinking if we should make Jadeja the captain.