The mental game of Somdev

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cricketics
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The mental game of Somdev

Post by cricketics »

Perhaps are only product rite now who can play at top 100 level, but the guys continues to have some mental issues. Not the only player, every player, yes every player goes through this.

Making the most of when your opponent is not looking fluent and making the most of when you aren't at your best, it's been tough for Somdev to capitalize on these occasions.

Today against Cilic, Somdev looked in good control in first set, and at same time cilic sort of looked ordinary from what he was all earlier this year and last year. He somehow came back to level 5-5 by breaking Somdev back. Somi broke him again and won the set eventually 7-5 but he lost the mental battle right away as he kept going on deuce on his serves. It was a tough ending to first set which carried in 2nd set with tough time for Somdev. He almost gave up the 2nd set.

What you think continues to be his problem. I still have good hope from him. He does play some awesome first sets against tough players, but fails to finish it off and it always carries to the 2nd set which often ends in disappointing match scores.

I am seeing this a pattern. Having watched most of his games. Cilic is a pretty good player but it would have been nice to see Somdev put a strong fight in 2nd set where he lost the set by 1-6.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by jayakris »

Mental strengths are also relative. Somdev is very strong, mentally, against players below, say, top-75. But the margin of error you can allow in your game becomes less and less depending on how high the opponents' abilities are (not necessarily just the ranking). Mental strengths also depends on having enough items working in your game to go to. If there are many things not clicking, then, all the mental strengths you show against the less-equipped players go away.

One can make the argument that it is not mental issues that is really Somdev's problem, and can even argue that even now, at the levels against those below top-75 (or even below top-30 a few months earlier) it is probably only a strength for him. That is, there are players whose games you see and immediately think that he should be doing better if he were stronger mentally. With Somdev, at least I never felt that way - and it was always the wonder about how he won so much with his game, unless he was particularly smart and strong in his mind in properly using whatever tools he had...

I think he must be simply playing a tad notch below his earlier levels right now, though. Meaning, there may be things just not working like they were working last year. I saw that in the LA ATP even back in July. It was clear that his bread-and-butter backcourt game was just not accurate like before and he was losing way too many of the long rallies with misfiring/inaccurate shots. May be the same still? Probably because of injuries, and perhaps also because he really needs that offseason to clear the chinks in the game. That could mean that he cannot sustain the higher level of play long enough in a match. When one or two things are not clicking in your game, no amount of mental strength can help you. It is easier for players with a lot of strengths in the game to allow some things to deteriorate, but Somdev is not one with extraordinary tools on so many parts of his game to overcome that even with a strong mind, again in relation to players in the top-150. When a player changes up some things on you and takes away what is working, you are left with only the parts of the game that have deteriorated a bit.

I did not see the match or anything. Just making general comments, because we all naturally tend to suspect mental issues when one goes down after doing well at the start. Having not had much of that habit all along as he was coming up, I have to think that it is simply his game and not his mind, that is the culrprit.

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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by cricketics »

jayakris wrote: I did not see the match or anything. Just making general comments, because we all naturally tend to suspect mental issues when one goes down after doing well at the start. Having not had much of that habit all along as he was coming up, I have to think that it is simply his game and not his mind, that is the culrprit.

Jay
Thanks for that post Jaya. I like how you put it(highlighted in bold). Hopefully it's that what you are talking about as I believe you have watched more tennis then most of us. This is just a war cry reaction perhaps from me perhaps who being a passionate Indian want to see an Indian show the world what we can do in tennis.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by prasen9 »

The choking discussion wrt Deepika brought this to my memory. Personally, I thought Somdev was quite mentally strong and a fighter till the end. Anyway, the reason to revive the thread is this fantastic podcast by Shankar Vedantam called Hidden Brain. He talked about the research related to stage fright. Hear it here: Stage Fright

In some sense, the "science" reminded me about Jay's "no think" advice. For people who have been trained and trained from an early age and have done well, the better way to do instead of focusing is to not think but to just play by instinct. The body and the muscle memory (working memory) will help do it for you. Sometimes, when you think or try to consciously do things that you are doing almost unconsciously or subconsciously, your conscious mind actually hampers the execution and you fail/choke, etc.

This is what is happening to Deepika and several of our cricketers in a close chase, etc. How to not think about the situation when the world's eye is on you is a difficult thing though. They talk about doing other things, music, meditation, etc.

Listen to it if you can. In fact, listen to every episode of the Hidden Brain. I have done that. It is my most favorite podcast. And, I must say I have not been disappointed by a single minute of the series of podcasts.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by Kumar »

Thanks for the article, Prasen

It is easier said than done! The pressure on Indian olympians is so much more than any other Olympian (probably even worse than North Korea where the consequences may be fatal)
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by jayakris »

Really interesting Podcast, prasen. Thanks for posting it. There is a lot of no-think in what is said there. The key is to have done the hard work over the years for you to be in a position to do no-think and to trust your muscles and subconscious decision-making to do the rest. In an "action sport" where you can constantly focus on some moving item (like a ball, or the opponent, in tennis) it may be a bit easier to implement a no-think strategy. Like "I must only focus on where the ball is and its movement all through its trajectory". So the "no-think" is basically a "single-think" of following the ball from when it leaves the opponents racket, and following the opponents movement from when it leaves your own racket. At all points of time during intervals of action, your mind has something it is doing, that it is trained to do.

That kind of a thing must be tough in a sport like archery where everything is static till you finish your action of firing. I just don't know what the archers (and shooters) train their minds to do during the period when they pick up the bow/gun, aim and then fire. How do you prevent the mind from wandering when it knows that there is nothing it (the mind) needs to do?
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by prasen9 »

Yes, for individual sports like archery and shooting, you pretty much have to trick your mind into thinking of something else or figure out how to shoot without trying to overthink about where it is going. I do not know if that is possible given that the game itself is about looking at the target aligning things and letting go and there is not much else or someone else doing things on the other side or on the field, etc.

If you have seen Nadal serve, which you have, you see he does this regular thing with his hand on his face, hair, etc. before serving. Spin bowlers have some action where they jump across, etc.. None of these are needed for the act itself, serving, or bowling spin. Maybe the shooters or archers can create such a regimen of standing up, moving their hair, stretching their arms, etc. and then going in and picking up the bow or gun and doing it. Still, you could freeze at the end but sometimes focusing on something else can work. But, if the something else regiment becomes a no-think action where your mind is going and worrying about missing the shot, then it is useless doubly.

Should we change the title of the thread to mental game of Somdev and beyond? Or move some parts of this to a Sports Psychology thread. Or just change the title to Sports Psychology and move it out of General Tennis Discussion? I will leave the decision to you.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by gbelday »

Thanks for sharing, Prasen. That’s an excellent podcast.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by prasen9 »

Yes, and so are each one of his other podcasts. Listen to a few more if you have the time or are driving, etc.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by prasen9 »

I decided to post this here instead of the Tokyo Olympics thread. This is so that it does not get lost in the huge Tokyo thread and I myself cannot find it. There is some study about better scores being correlated with lower heart-rates. The aiming time also seems to matter. Maybe no think is what is needed. Go and shoot. Do not aim and try to make the aim too good. Use muscle memory and stick to it rather than over thinking. Here is the article: Turkish National Archery Team study. We have so many good people in India.

But, then there was a study that said that it does not matter. Article So, which is it?

Can we not have some study done like this at the Olympics? Or World Championships?
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by Kumar »

As mentioned in other thread, Simon Biles withdrew from lot of her events. Amount of vitriol she has been subjected to is just staggering. For country with so much medals, I would have expected lot more understanding. Just wondering if the vitriol is more race related.

https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olym ... that-means

When I was young, I had always dreamed of being a famous athlete. In this day and age, being a famous athlete seems like a curse rather than a blessing
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by prasen9 »

It is Biles body. She does not have to do things and get injured when the body and mind is not in sync. Things happen. And, this is someone who has already done this well and won so many Olympic medals. So, the criticism is idiotic.
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by Kumar »

We should probably change name of the title and move it to other sports thread.

When I think of the chokers, I have a surprising name, Roger Federer. He had the best game among the big three. If u leave out French open, he should have won a lot more of the grand slams. I always felt that he put too much pressure on himself .
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Re: The mental game of Somdev

Post by suresh »

Kumar wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:27 pm We should probably change name of the title and move it to other sports thread.

When I think of the chokers, I have a surprising name, Roger Federer. He had the best game among the big three. If u leave out French open, he should have won a lot more of the grand slams. I always felt that he put too much pressure on himself .
One has to take into account the slowing down of the tennis balls -- this affected Federer more than Nadal or Djokovic. It lead to the ridiculous 5h marathon that Nadal and Djokovic played at the Australian open several years ago. I hated that match as I was watching it -- what would have been surefire winners with the older ball were being returned by two of the best retrievers in the game.
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