Indian Wells/Miami ATP 1000, March 2019

[prasen9]

We are not talking about year-end rankings, but weekly rankings. So Ramanathan Krishnan would, by that logic, have been around 3 in the world after his second Wimbledon SF (1961), but down to 6 by the end of the year (given that he didn't play the US championship). He also would have been ranked quite high (3 or 4) after making the QF at the French in 1962 (having made the SF at Wimbledon each of the previous two years). He didn't play the US championships after 1959 (the year he won the US Hard Court championship; in those days, the US championship at Forest Hills was played on grass).
There is litte doubt that Jaidip was ranked among the top-20 amateurs in his prime, which perforce means he was among the top-40 players (amateur and professional) at some points in his career.

This may be a weekly ranking but it is a 52-week ranking. There is nothing sacrosant about a year-end ranking now. It is one ranking among 52 others. Would RK Sr.'s ranking at #3 in the world have been a result of the past 52 weeks or a result of the current year's ranking? Current year rankings are rather meaningless, imho and less accurate than 52-week ranking.

Can a moderator move these ranking discussions to the ranking thread kindly? That way we can refer to it later instead of it dying down in this tournament thread, which will likely never be revived after this tournament is over (+a week maybe).

[PKBasu]

By weekly ranking, I mean of course that it is a 52-week ranking. Which is why, after making the 1961 Wimbledon SF and FO QF in 1962, he would have been ranked very highly (and was indeed seeded 4th at Wimbledon that year, 1962, when he got injured in the third round).

[Sin Hombre]

Bops' doubles match against Djokovic/Fognini will almost certainly go into a STB in the next few minutes, 5-1 up after losing the first set 6-4.

[Ullhas]

Bops lost 8-10 in STB. Sad result.
After winning second set decisively; the momentum was with them but the singles stars proved too much for them in STB.

[jayakris]

PKB, I also think Jaideep Mukherjea and Premjit Lall were somewhere in the top-40 to top-60 range and could have had a highest ranking above Somdev's best of #62, but I just couldn't tell. The only one I am certain (at his best) to have been in the top-10 or top-15 is Ramanathan Krishnan, which is why I said the two RKs, VA, SKD, and LP are the current top-5. But a case can be made that RamanathanK, VA, RameshK, JM, SKD, PL, and LP are the best SEVEN in terms of their highest rankings (all were in the world top-75 at some point). Prajnesh just went past Shashi Menon (#87 career-best), into the Indian top-8 on that criterion.

[sameerph]

Prajnesh just went past Shashi Menon (#87 career-best), into the Indian top-8 on that criterion.

Yuki had a career high of 83. Prajnesh is touch and go in overtaking him this week.
.

[jayakris]

Prajnesh just went past Shashi Menon (#87 career-best), into the Indian top-8 on that criterion.

Yuki had a career high of 83. Prajnesh is touch and go in overtaking him this week.

Ah, of course. Thanks, sameer. I forgot good old Yuki is there. He is in the top-8 right now. Yes, Prajnesh may not go past him just yet. I guess Yuki, Prajnesh and Shashi Menon will fill up the 8-9-10 spots in all-time best rankings, all below a top-75 career-best.

[RohitG]

There are many ways to judge but each factor in isolation has it's own flaws. Career highs just shows the peak of your performance but it can paint an inflated picture. The better way is to check how many weeks the player has spent in the top-100. Even then it doesn't account for the disparity in different eras in terms of how competitive the fields were. I feel Krishnans and Vijay are tier-1 when it comes to singles. LP depends on where you want to hold him, if bronze '96 and Davis Cup are to be considered then he's right there in the gold standard with them . After that in today's era I feel hands down Somdev is the best singles player we had. Yuki was supposed to surpass him and enter the top-50s had it not been for the injuries. Regardless, Prajnesh has definitely entered the top-10 when it comes to all-time Indian career highs. Now it's just an academic interest whether he can surpass #83 and #73. This window of opportunity is available till April 29th. Consistency and staying in the higher ranks is more important rather than shuttling back and forth from one grouping to another. He himself acknowledged in one of the articles that he's closer to the Wimbledon cutoff. After yeterday's win, he needs 30 more points to seal entry and after that, an additional 90 for US Open. If he can maintain that, he has more chances to better his career high stat too.

[jayakris]

Well-said, Rohit. That is the correct way to look at it.

[Ullhas]

I find "Lucky Loser" rule a bit unfair to players that Qualified through qualifying competition.
The 3 LL in this tournament got entry into second round directly because the players that pulled out were seeded and had first round bye.
Whereas the ones that actually won the qualifying competition; were playing in RD1.
A specific case to talk about: Ugo Humbert won qualifying competition but lost to Marterer in RD1.
Kecmanović got LL card to RD2 and won against Marterer in RD2 and is now playing in RD3.

While I understand that points and prize money for such LL will be equivalent to 1RD; still in my opinion it's too Lucky for them.
Probably that's why they are called The "LUCKY LOSER".

[rajitghosh]

PKB, I also think Jaideep Mukherjea and Premjit Lall were somewhere in the top-40 to top-60 range and could have had a highest ranking above Somdev's best of #62, but I just couldn't tell. The only one I am certain (at his best) to have been in the top-10 or top-15 is Ramanathan Krishnan, which is why I said the two RKs, VA, SKD, and LP are the current top-5. But a case can be made that RamanathanK, VA, RameshK, JM, SKD, PL, and LP are the best SEVEN in terms of their highest rankings (all were in the world top-75 at some point). Prajnesh just went past Shashi Menon (#87 career-best), into the Indian top-8 on that criterion.

If we go back a bit further there are a few others who were quite good in singles, the likes of Naresh Kumar, Sumant Mishra, Narendra Nath, Dilip Bose and Ghaus Mohammed. All of them were quite likely top 50-75 players.

[jayakris]

If we go back a bit further there are a few others who were quite good in singles, the likes of Naresh Kumar, Sumant Mishra, Narendra Nath, Dilip Bose and Ghaus Mohammed. All of them were quite likely top 50-75 players.

This is precisely why I am reluctant to count them all in. We just don't know. Quite likely that some of them were 50-75 at their best, but who knows! I feel a little better about Jaideep and Premjit because they were almost near the modern era and frequently in the grand slams, at least 3 of which were by then becoming the premier events. But all said and done, I am fully sure of only Ramanathan Krishnan from pre-1975 who was clearly in the world top-60 (i.e., above Somdev's best) - because he was by all accounts in the world top-10 or top-20 at his best, and as high as top-5 by some rankings.

[S_K_S]

All this comparing with the past is pointless in my view. Enjoy the present.

Court 4 today. 2nd match after a doubles. Will be peak time viewing for me

[PKBasu]

I agree with Samarth (S_K_S). Let's refocus on the present (after the reply below...).

I think it's best to confine the discussion to players in the Open era, when there actually was a record of computerised rankings that we can track. Unfortunately, these only began in 1973, so Premjit Lall (who was up 2 sets to 1 over Laver in R2 of Wimbledon 1969, and made R3 there in 1970 after beating Guillermo Vilas in R1) for instance only shows up with a career-high outside top-100 (although he clearly was a top-50 pro in 1970 at age 30; in 1969, he made R3 of the FO, R2 of the US Open and Wimbledon).
Premjit Lall adjusted much better to Open era tennis (i.e., the return of the professionals) than Jaidip Mukerjea, who struggled to get past R1 except in 1973 (when Wimbledon had a depleted draw). In the amateur era, Jaidip was much more successful (making the last-16 at both Wimbledon and the French in 1966, and last-16 of both the Australian and US championships in 1962). In 1962, both Lall (12) and Mukherjea (13) were seeded at the Australian -- and lived up to their seeding. The Australian, quite frankly, was not worthy of being called a Slam until the mid-1980s.
If we go all the way back to Dilip Bose, he made R4 (last-16) of Wimbledon in 1948, and was seeded 15th at Wimbledon in 1950 (when he had to retire injured in R2). 1950 was the first year seedings went beyond the first 8, otherwise he might have been seeded earlier too. Narendra Nath and Naresh Kumar often made R3 of the Slams in the late-1940s and early-1950s, and Sumant Misra at least once.
Ghaus Mohammed was probably even better than Dilip Bose, making the Wimbledon QF in 1939 (at the age of 24, which implies that his best tennis years were eaten up by the war); he lost to eventual champion Bobby Riggs. The previous year, he made R3 of the French, taking a set off the legendary Don Budge before succumbing.

[PKBasu]

Karlovic must be the first 40-year-old professional in the top-100 since Ken Rosewall (who was ranked #2 in April-June 1975, when he was 40 years old, having made the Wimbledon and US Open final in 1974, a few months before his 40th birthday: b. 2nd Nov 1934). Rosewall remained in the top-10 until June 1976, and in the top-20 until July 1978, when he was 43+. Vijay Amritraj finally beat Rosewall (having lost to him at both Wimbledon and the US Open in 1974, and at the USO in 1973 as well) only when the great man was 44 years old!

Karlovic remains a serving machine, and not much else (very much in the tradition of Roscoe Tanner from the 1970s, albeit achieving less than Tanner). His big tournament this year was the ATP Pune. There too most of his scores were 67 76 76 -- and similar. He gave a tough match to Nishikori at the AO, winning two sets 75 and losing three sets 67. The trick with playing him is to hold your nerve when serving, and hope for opportunities in the tiebreaks (which often come). Any breaks of Ivo's serve are a big bonus!