Indian Shooting thread

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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

IndiaSports wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:32 am Below par performance by both Manu and Heena, both miss the cut for the finals
In the end, Manu missed the final by only 1 point.

She had 573 while Heena had 571. Looking at last year's scores, at world cups, Manu had 572,571 and 567 and had 574 at world championships and Asiad. She had shot 576 in youth olympics. Only if she had shot that youth olympics score, she would have been sure shot for the final.

Heena had 574 in 2 of the world cups but only 571 in both world championships and Asiad.

All in all, in this event both of them still have some improvement to make to be consistently get scores of making olympic final level- medal is further ahead. Manu is better in qualifying on the other event- 25M pistol- but still to figure out the final there.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

I think for the time being Manu should only focus on the 10m Pistol event.
From what I have seen her on TV, she is very emotional, get very disappointed with herself whenever she misses a medal, which may affect her performance at other event she takes part in.
Understandably, she is just 16 and competition is huge.
So may be playing just her pet event in the main competition and MQS in 25m Pistol events for some time take some pressure off her and also she can give her 100% at 10m event.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

And actually think of it. She is only Indian shooter who is actually playing 3 events 10m, 25m and the pair.
With all the expectation built around her, it's definitely not easy.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by srini »

So just one quota place from home worldcup. Russia who got several quota from Changwon WC, didn’t add anything in Delhi. I am okay the quota places for 25m rapid fire have been moved from this World Cup, our guys get another chance at it they wouldn’t have qualified here with 5th being best finish.
I do agree Manu is highly talented but doesn’t possess one critical quality shooters require being void of emotions. Saurabh is impressive in that aspect reminiscent of Bindra
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

IndiaSports wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:43 pm I think for the time being Manu should only focus on the 10m Pistol event.
So may be playing just her pet event in the main competition and MQS in 25m Pistol events for some time take some pressure off her and also she can give her 100% at 10m event.
I am not sure 10M can be considered Manu's pet event any more. He scores in 25M qualifying both at Asiad and here have been top class, would have finished in top 3 anywhere in qualifying at world stage. In comparison, as I said earlier, in 10M her qualifying scores are still not consistently good to even make a final at a world class event.

So, if she has to choose for one event, she will have to think hard which one to choose.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

Saurabh and Manu take the 10m Pistol mixed pair Gold, after finishing the Qualification equalling the WR.
Manu was shaky at times in the finals, Saurabh was very consistent, rock solid.
2nd Gold for Saurabh and 3rd for India.

These two are our brightest hope in Tokyo, hope the NRAI protects them well.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

Yes, this mixed team pairing of Saurabh and Manu looks really promising. Manu has to first qualify though for them to be able to play together as a pair at Tokyo.
IndiaSports wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:43 pm I think for the time being Manu should only focus on the 10m Pistol event.
From what I have seen her on TV, she is very emotional, get very disappointed with herself whenever she misses a medal, which may affect her performance at other event she takes part in.
Understandably, she is just 16 and competition is huge.
This article confirms the same thing which you are saying -

Still learning how to deal with emotions: Coach Smirnov on Bhaker’s showing in shooting world cup
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

Overall a decent show by India, I guess.
Some of the scores were good but definitely can be improved, may be the 3P shooters under performed a bit.
Hope Mehuli gets to play the next WC and Manu wins a quota soon, she needs to enjoy and not take so much pressure.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by Sin Hombre »

This was a terrible show by India with only one quota spot from the home WC. Realistic expectation was at least 3.

Only positive is we can move Saurabh into the top potential category with Sindhu and Bajrang. Kid continues to show no concept of nerves.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

On what basis are you calling this performance terrible?
Sorry I have to disagree with you on this, it hasn't a spectacular performance but it wasn't terrible either.
3 Golds and 1 quota is decent, we also need to keep in mind their individual scores and the level of the field.
There were four events where we have chances of winning medals at Olympics or any other international events. Let's have a look.

Women's 10m rifle- This event needs no discussion, we have 4 world class athletes, Apurvi, Anjum, Mehuli and Elevenil, each of them capable of winning us a medal and we already have the two quota in our bag.

Men's 10m rifle- Not as strong as the women. we had 3 indians taking part in it in Delhi. None of them made it in the finals, Ravi Kumar scored 627, young Divyash Panwar making his senior debut scored 627.2, Deepak Kumar scored 624, which was bad score but he was injured.
For us Ravi and Deepak have been a regular look at their last three score, Deepak scored 630 in world championship where he made the finals, 627.4 in Munich WC last year and 624 here with an injury.
Ravi got 625.4 in WC, 628.6 in Munich WC, and 627 here.
At CWG Ravi had scored 626.7 and Deepak 626.3 and at AG Ravi scored 626.8 and Deepak 627.2
So we can see that they are shooters who can score in the range 625-627, Deepak may do a slight better. One of them might make the Olympics towards the end or may b one of the youngster Arjun Babuta or Panwar but realistically we don't have a medal chance at Olympics and their performance here was OK but definitely not terrible.

Men's 10m Pistol- Our brightest hope Saurabh delivered.
We have another world class shooter in this event Shahzar Rizvi, who won WC medals last year, making WR and was ranked no 1 but was dropped from the AG, haven't heard much of him since then may be some sort of injury, but hopefully he will be back and I am positive he can get us the second quota place.

Women's 10m Pistol - Manu missed the finals by just 1 point so that is also not terrible. She is capable of scoring between 574-580 and I am sure she will get us a quota, her issue is her emotion, the pressure and negativity around her whenever she loses, and we can't blame a 16 year old for that. how many 16 year olds are competing against world champions and that too in 3 events, it's not at all easy. What were you doing when you were 16?
Coming to Hina Sidhu, she can shoot in the range of 570-574 and honestly in field as strong as this I don't see her having any chance, hope she proves me wrong.

Men's Rapid fire pistol - Anish made it to the finals which is a good achievement for another 16 year old. Finishing 5th in this field is no easy feat.

Women's Rapid fire pistol- Manu made it to the finals , She has been very good at the Qualifying event at every competition she took part in, her problem is the final, which is more of technical issue and I am sure the coaches are looking at it.
Other one Rahi Sarnobat , is one who has outside chances may be. She scored 580, which is equal to her score at AG her she won the Gold, given the field here, she missed the finals.

3P Rifle- We never really had any chances here.
May be Anjum in women but I think she is focussing her attention on the 10m event and she can't win us any more quota since she won the 10m , I think something like that.
She dint even take part in main event here.

So we have to be realistic with are expectations, the shooters did decent enough here.
This is a very young team and it will take time for them to transition to seniors. We should compare them with their previous performance. Just because an event is being played in India, they are not going to shatter WR out of the blue.
Of all are athletes our shooters are very hard working bunch of players the NRAI is the best sports federation in India.
3 Gold, 1quota , 2 finals is not 'terrible', just because we have some unrealistic targets.

My only concern is the people around Manu, and all the negativity and pressure built on her whenever she misses a medal, especially some of our Indian coaches, the likes of Jaspal Rana and Ronak Pandit making those statements in media. They should be focus on building positive energy around the players and not rant in public. The NRAI has to sort this out.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

Good detailed analysis,Indiasports. I would like to add a few points -

Men's 10m rifle- Not as strong as the women. we had 3 indians taking part in it in Delhi. None of them made it in the finals, Ravi Kumar scored 627, young Divyash Panwar making his senior debut scored 627.2, Deepak Kumar scored 624, which was bad score but he was injured.
For us Ravi and Deepak have been a regular look at their last three score, Deepak scored 630 in world championship where he made the finals, 627.4 in Munich WC last year and 624 here with an injury.
Ravi got 625.4 in WC, 628.6 in Munich WC, and 627 here.
At CWG Ravi had scored 626.7 and Deepak 626.3 and at AG Ravi scored 626.8 and Deepak 627.2
So we can see that they are shooters who can score in the range 625-627, Deepak may do a slight better. One of them might make the Olympics towards the end or may b one of the youngster Arjun Babuta or Panwar but realistically we don't have a medal chance at Olympics and their performance here was OK but definitely not terrible.
Deepak had finished 6th at the world championships in a top field .He also got a silver at Asiad in a clutch field. Ravi Kumar has also done well at this level. So, I would be disappointed if at least 1 of them ( of not both) can qualify for Olympics and then anything can happen in a small field.

Men's 10m Pistol- Our brightest hope Saurabh delivered.
We have another world class shooter in this event Shahzar Rizvi, who won WC medals last year, making WR and was ranked no 1 but was dropped from the AG, haven't heard much of him since then may be some sort of injury, but hopefully he will be back and I am positive he can get us the second quota place.
Also we should not forget Jitu Rai. Currently, he is pretty down. But, he has been truly world class till last year. He can bounce back still if he fights the mental demons.

3P Rifle- We never really had any chances here.
May be Anjum in women but I think she is focussing her attention on the 10m event and she can't win us any more quota since she won the 10m , I think something like that.
She dint even take part in main event here.

This is Anjum's pet event and she is quite capable of producing a top performance in this event.

Overall, I am still hopeful of 3 medals in shooting at Tokyo - Saurabh, Womens Air rifle, 1 in mixed team/mens air rifle/ womens pistol.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by IndiaSports »

No Sameer, I mean wasn't there any rule where one shooter can win only one quota.
So since Anjum already won a quota in 10m event, is she allowed to win 3P event also?
Anjum is very talented shooter certainly capable to winning us medals
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

Yes, of course Anjum could not have won a quota for us here as she has already won one in 10M. But, I thought you said we have no medal hope in Womens 50M 3 positions. Anjum can do really well in that event.
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by SaniaFan »

How does it work? If anjum has won quota in 10m can she not participate in 50M 3P?
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Re: Indian Shooting thread

Post by sameerph »

SaniaFan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:06 am How does it work? If anjum has won quota in 10m can she not participate in 50M 3P?
Yes, she can as double starter. But, she has to be part of 2 shooters participating in 10M. So, in a sense it is bad for us that Anjum won that quota in 10M instead of 50M 3P. With so many talented shooters in 10M, we have to now hope that Anjum holds on to her form to be among top 2 in 10M so that she can be fielded in 50M. The only thing we can hope is for someone else ( or two) wins a quota in 50M.
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