what is the system to nurture atheletes in India?
is there any vision or document or even worthwhile startegy anywhere in IOC or SAI?
is there any well researched sports programs planned or under implementaion??
i usually don't bother considering the pathetic state and sickening mentality of the politcians and bureaucrats in the orgs. so i really don't believe a change is possible.
but with indian economy finally breaking out of its self imposed slumber and the country as a whole attracting far more attention these days having disappointed for deacdes, our sports debacle is bound to get even more prominent and critical attention. its going to reach intolerable levels.
the chinese fans ,despite the euphoria of olympics, have not forgotten india's discomfiture in this field and have not forgotten to rub it in.
everytime after a dismal olympics , there is an uproar and things remain the same for the next four years.
performances have slightly improved in asian games(having drawn a near blank in beijing 1990 before being saved by a kabaddi team!)
and even better at the commonwealth. but for acountry of oursize, we remain objects for ridicule.
i have seen kalmadi and the likes talk about bidding for olympics(the asian games bid failed) the evils of cricket occupying private sponsorship and attention.
but does he have any worthwhile program or strategy in mind at all?
or just hoping an asian games or commonwealth will generate miracle!
I am afraid the nations that matter ,do a lot more than hosting games.
i am not sure how much diffrence we can make. but a thread on what can be done and related info will be interesting as well who knows useful.
I will start with a few on what others have attempted.i am hoping for well researched works and hope others can contribute on how indian can progress or how others havr progressed.
This is the german attempt.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all
Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
About england.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/ju ... s.comment1
"most governing bodies now have a talent identification operation of some description. But, with the precise format left for each sport to decide, their standard is varied and unreliable. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/ju ... s.comment1
"most governing bodies now have a talent identification operation of some description. But, with the precise format left for each sport to decide, their standard is varied and unreliable. "
Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
An inferiority complex about Australia and sport is something uniquely South African (and perhaps Kiwi, too). In the light of a team that yesterday won its third successive Cricket World Cup, to go along with its multitude of other sporting triumphs, this article analyses why the Australians are so good at sport. Perhaps we can learn from them?
Prior to the 1968 Olympic Games, with a few notable exceptions such as American gridiron football, baseball and basketball, and rugby league in Britain and Australia, sport was essentially an amateur activity. This was especially true in Olympic competition which was open only to amateur athletes. But especially one country, the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) sought to professionalize the support they gave to their amateur athletes and so to improve their performance especially in Olympic competition. Through a combination of early talent identification, intensive coaching and training of the most talented athletes in a system that provided those talented athletes with optimum medical, technical and scientific support and into which a nationally co-ordinated doping programme was integrated, the GDR became, with the USA, the dominant force in Olympic competition between 1972 and 1988. This despite the 15-fold disparity in the respective population size of those two nations.
Australia was one nation that suffered as a result of the GDR success. Thus at the 1976 Montreal Olympic Games, Australian athletes won only 5 medals of which none was gold. Since the Australian national identity is based, in part, on a belief of superior athleticism – the bronzed Aussie battler overcoming all athletic obstacles in a hostile world – this was a threat too perilous to ignore. A state of national emergency was declared and the nation's top sporting administrators convened to plan a way forward.
By 1980 a proposed blueprint for future success had been accepted; the government committed to provide long term funding to establish a national centre of excellence - the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) – to be built in the nation's capital, Canberra, close to the seat of government. There the nation's best coaches and athletes representing those identified sports at which Australians might reasonably be expected to become future world leaders, would be housed. They would be provided with the medical, scientific and technological support necessary to insure that they became the best in the world. A nationwide sporting talent identification program was initiated so that most Australian school children are now screened for sporting talent whilst still at school. The mission of the AIS became to provide a “world class training environment to support AIS athletes and coaches”.
In the first four year cycle between 1980 and 1984, government provided the AIS with the equivalent of about R500 million (in current terms). This produced a steep increase in the number of Olympic medals won from 5 and 9 in 1976 and 1980 respectively to 24 at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. By 1996 funding increased to about R2.0 billion per 4 year cycle, reaching closer to about R3.0 billion prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympics at which Australian athletes won 58 medals, their largest haul. Interestingly there has been a linear relationship between the amount of money spent each year by Australian sport and the number of medals won in Olympic competition. The wisdom in the words of a former CEO of the AIS, Olympic marathoner Deek de Castella has been proven: “Money in equals medals out”.
In brief, the Australian model is based on the following foundations:
1. Adequate financial resources.
There has been a progressive increase in the level of funding for elite sport in Australia since the first grant was made in 1980. Funding for the 2002 to 2005 cycle showed a further increase even from amounts given prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games and will approach R3.3 billion for that 4 year period. In part this is a response to the serious challenge that, as discussed subsequently, will be posed by the Chinese at their 2008 Beijing Games.
2. Enthusiastic government support.
Since 1987 the AIS has merged with the government appointed Australian Sports Commission with the result that a common vision for Australian sport can be followed. Accountability is also maximized by this close relationship.
3. Athletic scholarship programmes.
The AIS offers scholarships to about 700 athletes in 35 different sports each year. Scholarship athletes have the opportunity to live and train at identified sporting campuses whilst in contact with coaching staff, medical personnel and sports scientists for up to 6 months at a time. These programmes are integrated nationally to insure that knowledge is shared across all sporting disciplines wherever located in the national structure.
4. Progressive expansion of physical resources
Whereas the work of the AIS was initially focused exclusively in Canberra and covered only 8 sports, in the past 25 years there has been a progressive expansion of expertise to all the Australian states and to many more sports. Thus there are currently 35 sports for which athletes can receive scholarships and centres of specialization now exist in most of the major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth and the Gold Coast. These compliment the work done by the AIS in Canberra.
In addition, each state has its own Institute of Sport at which expertise comparable to that originally found only at the AIS in Canberra can be provided to athletes training either at the centre of specialization in that state or as individual scholarship athletes.
5. Development of world-leading scientific and coaching expertise (intellectual capitol)
The AIS currently employs 75 official coaches in the supported sports. These coaches are distributed across Australia. In addition, there has been a concerted effort over the past 20 years to improve the quality of the medical, scientific and technological support given to scholarship athletes. As a result, the international standing of Australian sports medicine and sports science has risen dramatically especially in the past decade. Many would consider that currently Australian sports physicians, physiotherapists and exercise scientists are amongst the very best in the world. They are also in demand around the world with a least 40 recently re-locating to England, the next country that has begun to follow the Australian model.
More difficult to measure is the effect that this financial support has had on the quality of Australian coaching in the 35 sports currently supported by the AIS. But it seems reasonable to assume that the international success of Australian sport must indicate that their coaches are also at least equal to the very best in most other countries.
The key point not often fully understood is that the financial support for Australian sport by the Australian government has not simply improved the sporting and training facilities available for Australian athletes and allowed athletes and coaches to devote themselves fully to their sports. More importantly, it has allowed the development of a rich intellectual capitol, available for all future Australian athletes, coaches, scientists and medical personnel.
This intellectual capitol grows exponentially with each passing year and is never lost since it is part of an integrated whole that has become a national sporting treasure. Nor can this treasure be suddenly lost or indeed replicated overnight by other countries that have lacked the sporting foresight of the Australian government of the late 1970’s.
The special case of Australian cricket (section written by Prof Tim Noakes of the UCT Research Unit for Exercise Science and Sports Medicine)
Whilst Australians appreciate Olympic sporting success, the national sport remains cricket. In part this is historical and the result of the continuing hold that one man, Sir Donald Bradman, has on the national sporting psyche.
Bradman, the greatest cricketer of all time by some margin, came to prominence at a critical time in Australian history when the nation was financially strapped as a result of the First World War and the Depression and at the financial mercy of the United Kingdom. There was also the memory of the Battle of Gallipoli at which, according to the Australian interpretation, the Aussie troops were sent to their death by an indifferent English commander.
In this period of great national misery, almost the sole ray of hope was Bradman’s consistency in repeatedly scoring centuries seemingly every time he went to bat and his ability to inspire Australian cricketing victories over the distrusted English. With the exception of a few aberrant periods, Australians have always been at or close to the top of international cricket, most especially in the past 15 years. Yet Australian cricket is not a core feature of the AIS programme and has developed its own systems for success.
Two crucial visions that Australian cricket shares with those of the AIS are (i) the development of intellectual capitol and (ii) the retention within the system of the expertise of former players. Thus Australian cricket currently employs two full time research scientists to insure that its science remains ahead of that of its competitors. Those scientists are currently working with more than 10 doctoral students in various Australian Universities. The retention of the expertise of former players explains why, for example, Shane Warne did not have to learn the art of spin bowling from scratch. Rather his brilliance owes at least something to that lineage of world-class Australian wrist spinners – Clarrie Grimmett and Bill O’Reilly in the 1920’s and 30’s and Richie Benaud in the 1950’s and 60’s – who laid the foundation for Warne’s success over the entire course of the 20th century.
Finally there is the perception that Australian cricketers never give up – an ingrained attitude that antedates the influence even of Sir Don Bradman. There are clearly important lessons for South African cricket in this example
An inferiority complex about Australia and sport is something uniquely South African (and perhaps Kiwi, too). In the light of a team that yesterday won its third successive Cricket World Cup, to go along with its multitude of other sporting triumphs, this article analyses why the Australians are so good at sport. Perhaps we can learn from them?
Prior to the 1968 Olympic Games, with a few notable exceptions such as American gridiron football, baseball and basketball, and rugby league in Britain and Australia, sport was essentially an amateur activity. This was especially true in Olympic competition which was open only to amateur athletes. But especially one country, the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) sought to professionalize the support they gave to their amateur athletes and so to improve their performance especially in Olympic competition. Through a combination of early talent identification, intensive coaching and training of the most talented athletes in a system that provided those talented athletes with optimum medical, technical and scientific support and into which a nationally co-ordinated doping programme was integrated, the GDR became, with the USA, the dominant force in Olympic competition between 1972 and 1988. This despite the 15-fold disparity in the respective population size of those two nations.
Australia was one nation that suffered as a result of the GDR success. Thus at the 1976 Montreal Olympic Games, Australian athletes won only 5 medals of which none was gold. Since the Australian national identity is based, in part, on a belief of superior athleticism – the bronzed Aussie battler overcoming all athletic obstacles in a hostile world – this was a threat too perilous to ignore. A state of national emergency was declared and the nation's top sporting administrators convened to plan a way forward.
By 1980 a proposed blueprint for future success had been accepted; the government committed to provide long term funding to establish a national centre of excellence - the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) – to be built in the nation's capital, Canberra, close to the seat of government. There the nation's best coaches and athletes representing those identified sports at which Australians might reasonably be expected to become future world leaders, would be housed. They would be provided with the medical, scientific and technological support necessary to insure that they became the best in the world. A nationwide sporting talent identification program was initiated so that most Australian school children are now screened for sporting talent whilst still at school. The mission of the AIS became to provide a “world class training environment to support AIS athletes and coaches”.
In the first four year cycle between 1980 and 1984, government provided the AIS with the equivalent of about R500 million (in current terms). This produced a steep increase in the number of Olympic medals won from 5 and 9 in 1976 and 1980 respectively to 24 at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. By 1996 funding increased to about R2.0 billion per 4 year cycle, reaching closer to about R3.0 billion prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympics at which Australian athletes won 58 medals, their largest haul. Interestingly there has been a linear relationship between the amount of money spent each year by Australian sport and the number of medals won in Olympic competition. The wisdom in the words of a former CEO of the AIS, Olympic marathoner Deek de Castella has been proven: “Money in equals medals out”.
In brief, the Australian model is based on the following foundations:
1. Adequate financial resources.
There has been a progressive increase in the level of funding for elite sport in Australia since the first grant was made in 1980. Funding for the 2002 to 2005 cycle showed a further increase even from amounts given prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games and will approach R3.3 billion for that 4 year period. In part this is a response to the serious challenge that, as discussed subsequently, will be posed by the Chinese at their 2008 Beijing Games.
2. Enthusiastic government support.
Since 1987 the AIS has merged with the government appointed Australian Sports Commission with the result that a common vision for Australian sport can be followed. Accountability is also maximized by this close relationship.
3. Athletic scholarship programmes.
The AIS offers scholarships to about 700 athletes in 35 different sports each year. Scholarship athletes have the opportunity to live and train at identified sporting campuses whilst in contact with coaching staff, medical personnel and sports scientists for up to 6 months at a time. These programmes are integrated nationally to insure that knowledge is shared across all sporting disciplines wherever located in the national structure.
4. Progressive expansion of physical resources
Whereas the work of the AIS was initially focused exclusively in Canberra and covered only 8 sports, in the past 25 years there has been a progressive expansion of expertise to all the Australian states and to many more sports. Thus there are currently 35 sports for which athletes can receive scholarships and centres of specialization now exist in most of the major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth and the Gold Coast. These compliment the work done by the AIS in Canberra.
In addition, each state has its own Institute of Sport at which expertise comparable to that originally found only at the AIS in Canberra can be provided to athletes training either at the centre of specialization in that state or as individual scholarship athletes.
5. Development of world-leading scientific and coaching expertise (intellectual capitol)
The AIS currently employs 75 official coaches in the supported sports. These coaches are distributed across Australia. In addition, there has been a concerted effort over the past 20 years to improve the quality of the medical, scientific and technological support given to scholarship athletes. As a result, the international standing of Australian sports medicine and sports science has risen dramatically especially in the past decade. Many would consider that currently Australian sports physicians, physiotherapists and exercise scientists are amongst the very best in the world. They are also in demand around the world with a least 40 recently re-locating to England, the next country that has begun to follow the Australian model.
More difficult to measure is the effect that this financial support has had on the quality of Australian coaching in the 35 sports currently supported by the AIS. But it seems reasonable to assume that the international success of Australian sport must indicate that their coaches are also at least equal to the very best in most other countries.
The key point not often fully understood is that the financial support for Australian sport by the Australian government has not simply improved the sporting and training facilities available for Australian athletes and allowed athletes and coaches to devote themselves fully to their sports. More importantly, it has allowed the development of a rich intellectual capitol, available for all future Australian athletes, coaches, scientists and medical personnel.
This intellectual capitol grows exponentially with each passing year and is never lost since it is part of an integrated whole that has become a national sporting treasure. Nor can this treasure be suddenly lost or indeed replicated overnight by other countries that have lacked the sporting foresight of the Australian government of the late 1970’s.
The special case of Australian cricket (section written by Prof Tim Noakes of the UCT Research Unit for Exercise Science and Sports Medicine)
Whilst Australians appreciate Olympic sporting success, the national sport remains cricket. In part this is historical and the result of the continuing hold that one man, Sir Donald Bradman, has on the national sporting psyche.
Bradman, the greatest cricketer of all time by some margin, came to prominence at a critical time in Australian history when the nation was financially strapped as a result of the First World War and the Depression and at the financial mercy of the United Kingdom. There was also the memory of the Battle of Gallipoli at which, according to the Australian interpretation, the Aussie troops were sent to their death by an indifferent English commander.
In this period of great national misery, almost the sole ray of hope was Bradman’s consistency in repeatedly scoring centuries seemingly every time he went to bat and his ability to inspire Australian cricketing victories over the distrusted English. With the exception of a few aberrant periods, Australians have always been at or close to the top of international cricket, most especially in the past 15 years. Yet Australian cricket is not a core feature of the AIS programme and has developed its own systems for success.
Two crucial visions that Australian cricket shares with those of the AIS are (i) the development of intellectual capitol and (ii) the retention within the system of the expertise of former players. Thus Australian cricket currently employs two full time research scientists to insure that its science remains ahead of that of its competitors. Those scientists are currently working with more than 10 doctoral students in various Australian Universities. The retention of the expertise of former players explains why, for example, Shane Warne did not have to learn the art of spin bowling from scratch. Rather his brilliance owes at least something to that lineage of world-class Australian wrist spinners – Clarrie Grimmett and Bill O’Reilly in the 1920’s and 30’s and Richie Benaud in the 1950’s and 60’s – who laid the foundation for Warne’s success over the entire course of the 20th century.
Finally there is the perception that Australian cricketers never give up – an ingrained attitude that antedates the influence even of Sir Don Bradman. There are clearly important lessons for South African cricket in this example
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prasen9
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
Thank you genius for the posts. I will not answer your rhetorical questions about what India has done to improve sports. The answer is obvious to everyone.
I still think that the money may be better spent in setting up infrastructure and systems rather than the Olympics, but, now I think that maybe if we got the Olympics, society will finally have some shame to setup some scouting programs and pay attention to sports development in the country like the Aussies or any of the other countries. So, maybe something good may come out of it, or may be not.
I still think that the money may be better spent in setting up infrastructure and systems rather than the Olympics, but, now I think that maybe if we got the Olympics, society will finally have some shame to setup some scouting programs and pay attention to sports development in the country like the Aussies or any of the other countries. So, maybe something good may come out of it, or may be not.
Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
The IOA does have something at least though no long term vision or anything.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0710/p01s03-wosc.html
"
As evidence of the government's increased emphasis on sports, he points to the IOA's plans to establish 800,000 sports clubs in villages throughout India and to build a 150-acre national Olympic training center.
Until then, the Sports Authority of India's national training center in Patiala is an attempt to improve the conditions for elite Indian athletes in the interim.
"
I would be interested to know if the training center has several dimensions like sports scientists,psychologists and reigstered world class coaches. something like the australian institute of sport is what i have in mind.
and hope they choose a proper location like the big metros.
and regarding talent identitifcation programs ,sports scientists and coaches?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0710/p01s03-wosc.html
"
As evidence of the government's increased emphasis on sports, he points to the IOA's plans to establish 800,000 sports clubs in villages throughout India and to build a 150-acre national Olympic training center.
Until then, the Sports Authority of India's national training center in Patiala is an attempt to improve the conditions for elite Indian athletes in the interim.
"
I would be interested to know if the training center has several dimensions like sports scientists,psychologists and reigstered world class coaches. something like the australian institute of sport is what i have in mind.
and hope they choose a proper location like the big metros.
and regarding talent identitifcation programs ,sports scientists and coaches?
Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
It takes a NRI to take initiative while our sports bodies are stuck in mediocrity!
the mittal trust at the moment has around 10 million committed funding and a single individual can only do so much.
the mittal trust at the moment has around 10 million committed funding and a single individual can only do so much.
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puneets
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121873370274641281.html
Amit Varma's article in WSJ
Indian Athletes Don't Need New Delhi
Amit Varma's article in WSJ
Indian Athletes Don't Need New Delhi
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nballa
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
yes they do have a vision. its called cricket.
999 million indians share the same view. and who really cares or follows the abhinavs and the vijenders outside of the olympics. seriously noone has the time. i say chuck all these medals and get home the cricket world cup.
999 million indians share the same view. and who really cares or follows the abhinavs and the vijenders outside of the olympics. seriously noone has the time. i say chuck all these medals and get home the cricket world cup.
Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
This is the rise of china rom no 4 in 1984 to no 1 in 2008.
For two olympics they stayed around the 30 medal mark with less than 16 golds. Then they rose to 50 medals and around 15+ or 30+ golds for 4 more olympics. the gold medals started rising in 2000 to 30+. now they have topped 50 golds and also the 100 medal mark.
LA
Gold 15
Silver 8
Bronze 9
Total 32
Seoul
Gold 5
Silver 11
Bronze 12
Total 28
Barcelona
Gold 16
Silver 22
Bronze 16
Total 54
Atlanta
Gold 16
Silver 22
Bronze 12
Total 50
syndey
Gold 28
Silver 16
Bronze 15
Total 59
Athens
Gold 32
Silver 17
Bronze 14
Total 63
Beijing
Gold 51
Silver 21
Bronze 28
Total 100
I have not spent time on the development of their system. but it seems to be based on centralised centres and talent identification just like GDR.
For two olympics they stayed around the 30 medal mark with less than 16 golds. Then they rose to 50 medals and around 15+ or 30+ golds for 4 more olympics. the gold medals started rising in 2000 to 30+. now they have topped 50 golds and also the 100 medal mark.
LA
Gold 15
Silver 8
Bronze 9
Total 32
Seoul
Gold 5
Silver 11
Bronze 12
Total 28
Barcelona
Gold 16
Silver 22
Bronze 16
Total 54
Atlanta
Gold 16
Silver 22
Bronze 12
Total 50
syndey
Gold 28
Silver 16
Bronze 15
Total 59
Athens
Gold 32
Silver 17
Bronze 14
Total 63
Beijing
Gold 51
Silver 21
Bronze 28
Total 100
I have not spent time on the development of their system. but it seems to be based on centralised centres and talent identification just like GDR.
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suresh
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
... and hopefully no state-sponsored doping as in the case of GDR.genius wrote: I have not spent time on the development of their system. but it seems to be based on centralised centres and talent identification just like GDR.
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Ankit Desai
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
No sports bodies dont have a vision and good example is to re elect Kalmadi as President adn Randhir as Sec.
Kalmadi re-elected IOA President
Ankit
Kalmadi re-elected IOA President
God saves Indian Sports.Having been chosen unopposed
, Kalmadi said, "This four years means we have to remain in office till 2012 and hence the onus of a performance in London [Images] 2012 will be on us.
Ankit
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jayakris
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
You mean God interfered to save us? ...God saves Indian Sports
Jay
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BSharma
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Re: Do the sports bodies in India have a vision?
Dear Atithee,Atithee wrote:Jay and Bhushan,
May I have the permission to insult the pachyderms again?
Sincerely,
The Mahout
You have been a member of Sports-India for quite some time and by now you should have known that we are a bunch of "reactive" kind of guys and by no means we are "proactive".
If you ask for our permission, we will keep quiet, and will pounce on your post the moment we see something "juicy". 