Indian Badminton Thread ...

[suresh]

It is not as if there aren't other academies in India. The issue is that they have not had the success that Gopi has had. If there were multiple sources of national level players, then I feel that these conflicts of interest will be minimized. Of course, our inability to get other top notch coaches hurts.

The Padukone badminton academy may have got a boost from becoming part of something bigger in the form of The Padukone-Dravid Centre for Sports Excellence. Hope this helps create a new set of badminton players in the future. There is an academy in Pune -- don't know much about it. Maybe Jaydeep can update us on how this one is working.

[prasen9]

India should have a national academy if we want a national coach to work with the top talents. Otherwise, we have to send the coach to the academy where the talent is, i.e., Gopi's academy. Then it becomes two bosses. To avoid that, we have one boss, Gopi. When we set up a true national academy, we can get other coaches.

[depleter]

Looks like nobody here posted about the ongoing foreign coach debacle. Our foreign doubles coach came out in the open and said that one of the main reason the foreign coaches quit is because the players lack discipline and they lack respect towards the coaches. Apparently looks like Sindhus coach Kim gave an interview too regarding Sindhus attitude.I don't know about what is true in it though.

[jayakris]

Yeah, I've been seeing the articles too. Here is one - Gopichand backs coaches’ criticism of shuttlers’ attitude

The fact is that Indians are just not good at respecting authority. Just my opinion. There are some cultural variations across India and a couple of places like Gujarat and Tamil Nadu (just a data-less "feeling" I have) may show a few more people who have the personal discipline to respect authority regardless of the person in authority, but vast populations in India trust their own beliefs and judgments than what somebody else tells them. This is very different from East Asian countries where it is a part of the culture that respect automatically go to authority (or position that automatically make somebody an expert or teacher or decision-maker). Many more sportsmen, artists, etc, blindly follow their coaches/mentors in much of Asia. That probably comes Confucian and Buddhist influence over centuries, I suppose.

Perhaps Japan and Korea have the highest levels of this, and people from China and other countries like Indonesia, Thailand, etc, also show high levels of such native respect for coaches (and those in positions "above you", in all walks of life). In western countries, this is not there in all walks of life, but there is an extremely strong sports culture that instills respect to coaches from a young age. In east Asian countries, it is part of the overall culture. India has neither. So I was not at all surprised that a Korean coach did not work out for Sindhu. In fact, Korean coaches have not worked out in all kinds of cases in India, other fields like Archery included. Heck, foreign coaches have rarely worked out for Indians, and Indian coaches who work out are often no great shakes either

I am making all kinds of stereotyping here, and painting with a broad brush, but it is something I have always wondered about. A lot of the lack of discipline in Indians that we see, is actually coming from a lack of respect for positions. We have a nature of questioning authority or positions. We may decide that it is beneficial for us (selfish interest) and show respect or even servitude, but it is not out of a deeply instilled cultural underpinning of respect for authority or position. But then, what about our caste systems? Of course, without the servitude that came out of fear or perceived benefits, we wouldn't have a caste system in India. But it was never believed to be "right" by any of the people who were part of the system, both the victims and the perpetrators... or so I have to surmise. The moment they can question authority, Indians would be ready to do that. But not so elsewhere in Asia.

Maybe I am all wrong, but it is an interesting topic to think about....

[prasen9]

We do have a respect for elders though and respecting the "guru" but maybe these days nobody pays attention to that. And now Jay has to move this to another thread

[gbelday]

Interesting conversation here. Until a couple of years ago, I was always under the impression that Indians follow authority blindly (except maybe in Cricket). To get to that next level, all athletes need to be like how Abhinav Bindra was...completely focused on the goal. His book is a must read. I think our Badminton players were like that for a while but based on their insta posts lately, they seem like a bunch that loves to have fun too. That’s probably not what the coaches want to see in the Olympic year and want them to be more focused on the goal..

[jayakris]

Interesting conversation here. Until a couple of years ago, I was always under the impression that Indians follow authority blindly

I used to think so too. But when I thought a little deeper, it felt like we actually do not. Indians do it when it suits them, or because they have no choice but to do it, but not so much out of any deep-rooted principles that "it is their duty to do so". Much of east Asia is quite different. It is a part of their existence, and they do it, regardless of whether it is to their benefit or whether any compulsion exists. This is a reason why Indians took to democracy so easily, threw away in no time in 1947 all their Kings that they acted like they worshiped all along, and also did not become communist (which also requires extreme obedience to authority and hierarchy). S. Korea needed a police state and US involvement to prevent communism once the royalty was gone. Indonesia needed a dictatorship. N.Korea, Vietnam, China etc became fully communist, of course. Try telling the Thai or Japanese in 1947 to abolish their monarchies, it wasn't going to happen. I am sure others have looked/researched deeper into this but in my view, deep-rooted beliefs in showing blind respect for authority was a reason. That was not the case in India.

Prasen is right that Indians do respect older people, but even that is often in things that don't cost much effort. They will stand when the elder sits, and will listen when the elder tells them stories or philosophy. They will say "ji, ji"... But nobody really takes serious decisions just on the basis of older people telling them. The only exception is marriage, where the Indian always had to listen to the parents/uncles/etc, because it is a society affair and the society was very strong in opposing individual selection of brides/grooms (where most of the rest of Asia again allowed a lot more freedom for some kind of dating, which was simply prevented in India). The society's reason was perhaps that Indians were much more diverse and stratified in social/economic/religious/genetic dimensions than those in other Asian countries where the society didn't see much of mis-match trouble from letting young people mingle more freely.

Totally off-topic, so I will move this all out soon

[Sin Hombre]

100% agree with Jay. We are an insincere lot when it comes to respecting others. We also see that with the incessant violation of rules by Indians both at home and abroad. I actually mainland Chinese are very similar outside of China, just a bit less flagrant.


As for our badminton players, none of this is surprising. A lot of them, and Srikanth is the biggest example, have no self-awareness and only care about their Insta brand.

This is what happens when a Srikanth makes as much money as a Momota (who is 10x/100x the player) and Sindhu makes 10x what Marin does.

I know we like to complain about lack of support for our tennis players, but no region rewards relative mediocrity as much as South Asia does. Sindhu has not achieved enough sportingly to be in the top 10 female athletes in the world imo.

[Atithee]

It’s actually worse. One who follows the rule is an idiot in India. One who flaunts the rules is your regular person. Just try observing traffic rules in India—if a divider is placed, unless you can break it in between to make a left or u-turn or simply drive against the traffic to avoid a legitimate u-turn, you are considered stupid. I think nothing else exemplifies Indians’ disregard for authority than blatant disregard for traffic rules.

P.S. you are also an idiot if you drive on low beam in India. It’s insane how high beam is the norm for Indian driving.

[RohitG]

Like Lachcha Paratha, it's about layers. Indian psyche has been shaped by multiple cultures. My humble two cents (and apologies for off topic post and generalization that I am about to do): I think it depends from person to person and circumstance. Respect to authority (our of fear) may or may not be equated to the "respect" concept we have in India. What Prasen says, respecting the Guru i.e: the respect here is out of reverence/+gratitude (or that's what it's supposed to be) Take examples of how classical singers, instrument players and traditional dancers treat their mentors. Like Atithi Devo Bhava, we have Acharya Devo Bhava too.. Treat your guest or teacher like how you treat God. For those who believe, does it mean God fearing or God loving? Broader agreement would be "reverence" I think this differs from what they have in East Asia. There's a whole chapter on this in Gladwell's Outliers on Korean airline cos. We did have similar style juxtaposed by medieval kings, colonials and now carried forward by the elites/privileged like a birthright (caste and class system?)
However in sports, I think it's more dependent on what kind of sport you're playing and what role the coach/mentor plays or has played. In sports where you have hire and fire attitude, contracts with specific goal-setting, you will see these scenarios pan out. We have seen so many examples in 2019 alone, where tennis players have parted ways with their coaches. But you'll see the opposite in the way our wrestlers/Kabaddi team treat their coaches (touching the feet before and after the game) But the same may not be observed with the Indian football team.. Constantine/Igor have not really played a "Guru" role either. Then again it's not a foreign concept in football either. Counter-example: CR7 considers Sir Alex as a father figure. Depends on the role. Bringing it back to Sindhu or Indian badminton players, I doubt she'll treat Gopi the same way like the Korean coach.
I think there's more to this story than what we know. Perhaps the Korean coach expected the same status as Gopi after Sindhu won the world championship.. or didn't like how the other coaches treated her.

[jaydeep]

Some good news on the coaching front ... The legendary Indonesian coach Agus Dwi Santoso has appointed as the Indian Singles coach ... He will start working with the team in the 2nd week of March.

Top coach Santoso to help Sindhu, Saina and Srikanth

[suresh]

Better late than never.

[SaniaFan]

Doubles coach has resigned. This is becoming a big issue. Although he has given family reasons for his resignation, he was critical of the attitude of Indian players. Is there a cultural issue here?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spo ... 540907.cms

[Atithee]

There is no doubt in my mind that Indian players expect special treatment as opposed to the other way around. Our culture is based on hero worship and arrogance, sports are no exception. This is exacerbated by rewarding mediocre performances with undeserved accolades. World class coaches will not tolerate this. Not surprised at all.

[Varma]

Completely echo your sentiments, Atithee. If any, our guys should be begging these coaches not to leave. It's ridiculous that the system is not disciplining our players despite multiple coaches abandoning citing the same reason.Pretty pathetic and disgusting!

- Varma