BWF World Championships 2019

[prasen9]

Re Kohli, yes he was part of the World Cup winning team in 2011, and made an important 35 in the final -- but he did not have a decisive impact on that World Cup triumph (Yuvraj was the Man of the Tournament, Gambhir and Dhoni made the crucial batting contributions in the final).

Kohli scored 282 runs in 9 matches with an average of about 35 with a SR of 82 (then). That is competent. Yes, SRT, Gambhir, Sehwag, Dhoni, and Yuvraj were the stars. He was the clear #6 bat. But, without a competent #6 bat you do not win a world cup. As we saw the lack of middle order bats who are competent cost the team this year. I do not think that India would have won in 2011 without seven competent bats. #7 was Jadeja if I recall correctly. You need match winners and you need a foundation.

If a moderator could move this to the WC 2011 thread, that would be great.

[prasen9]

Would PT Usha be among the inspirations? Bindra? Sania surely is—she put India on tennis map in women’s and I’m sure showed the way to lots of young Indian girls.

Inspiration yes. But, except for Bindra, I would not put the other two at the same rank as Sindhu. Performance and domination of one's sport at the world stage to win big means something.

[Atithee]

Yes, please move these posts to an appropriate thread. Let’s let this thread be reflective of the truly great Sindhu performance.

[Sin Hombre]

I wrote a very long post and got timed out

Not going to write an essay again.

Saina and Leander are overrated on here given the forum's history (never been a top 20 player and doubles doesn't count). They can't claim to have inspired anyone either. Mahesh actually gets some kudos for Sumit and Kamran.

Objective criteria,

Low participation individual sport (most Olympic sports) - best in the world
Medium participation individual sport (badminton, chess, pro boxing, motorsport) - top 3 in the world
High participation individual sport (sprinting, tennis, golf) - top 10 in the world

Low participation team sport (field hockey) - best in the world
Medium participation team sport (cricket, rugby, volleyball) - top 5 in the world
High participation team sport (football, basketball) - top 20 in the world

Off this criteria, we get
Bindra
Sindhu, Saina, Padukone
Anand
Milkha Singh, PT Usha
Ramanathan Krishnan*
Dhyan Chand
Gavaskar, Kapil Dev, Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Dhoni, Kohli, Ashwin

Add another objective filter in terms of longevity and being undisputedly meeting those criteria for at least 3 years, we are left with
Sindhu, Saina, Anand, Dhyan Chand, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dhoni, Kohli

Add another filter that you should have been the best in the world at least one year, we are left with a smaller group of 5 who all have some criticisms against them

Sindhu
con - not consistent in smaller tournaments, never been #1
pro - 2nd best player in women over the last 5 years (win the OG next year and she will be the best player of her generation)
Anand
con - terrible record against Kasparov
pro - 5th/6th in GOAT rankings, 4-time undisputed world champion, top 10 for 3 decades
Dhyan Chand
con - prehistoric era
pro - considered the Don Bradman / Babe Ruth of field hockey
Tendulkar
con - not considered a match winner
pro - holder of most runs records of all kinds
Kohli
con - choker in big tournaments
pro - phenomenal consistency

Not an obvious pick between these 5 imo.

[SaniaFan]

Why Marykom could not make even the first list? She is 5 times world champion.

[rajitghosh]

I wrote a very long post and got timed out

Not going to write an essay again.

Saina and Leander are overrated on here given the forum's history (never been a top 20 player and doubles doesn't count). They can't claim to have inspired anyone either. Mahesh actually gets some kudos for Sumit and Kamran.

Objective criteria,

Low participation individual sport (most Olympic sports) - best in the world
Medium participation individual sport (badminton, chess, pro boxing, motorsport) - top 3 in the world
High participation individual sport (sprinting, tennis, golf) - top 10 in the world

Low participation team sport (field hockey) - best in the world
Medium participation team sport (cricket, rugby, volleyball) - top 5 in the world
High participation team sport (football, basketball) - top 20 in the world

Off this criteria, we get
Bindra
Sindhu, Saina, Padukone
Anand
Milkha Singh, PT Usha
Ramesh Krishnan*
Dhyan Chand
Gavaskar, Kapil Dev, Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Dhoni, Kohli, Ashwin

Add another objective filter in terms of longevity and being undisputedly meeting those criteria for at least 3 years, we are left with
Sindhu, Saina, Anand, Dhyan Chand, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dhoni, Kohli

Add another filter that you should have been the best in the world at least one year, we are left with a smaller group of 5 who all have some criticisms against them

Sindhu
con - not consistent in smaller tournaments, never been #1
pro - 2nd best player in women over the last 5 years (win the OG next year and she will be the best player of her generation)
Anand
con - terrible record against Kasparov
pro - 5th/6th in GOAT rankings, 4-time undisputed world champion, top 10 for 3 decades
Dhyan Chand
con - prehistoric era
pro - considered the Don Bradman / Babe Ruth of field hockey
Tendulkar
con - not considered a match winner
pro - holder of most runs records of all kinds
Kohli
con - choker in big tournaments
pro - phenomenal consistency

Not an obvious pick between these 5 imo.

I don't see how Kapil Dev missed out on the longevity criteria. He played for India for 15 years. He played a stellar role in both the 1983 World Cup win and the 1985 World Championship of Cricket win in Australia (even though Shastri got the Audi). He introduced hard hitting and pace bowling to a country known for slow batting and spin bowling. He may not have been best all rounder of his generation but that is simply because there were 3 other legends playing at the same time. Still he is the only one with 5000+ test runs and 400+ test wickets that too bowling on dead pitches in India.

Calling Dhyan Chand pre-historic era is not right. Beating Hitler's German team 8-1 in the 1936 final is one of India's greatest sporting achievements. If not for the World War, he would have had 2 more Olympic golds.

If you look at sheer match winning ability among cricketers Anil Kumble would by far be No. 1 though many on this forum would not put him on this list.

Not sure though why you put Ramesh Krishnan and not Vijay Amritraj. Did you mean Ramanathan Krishnan who actually was an inspiration both for Ramesh and the Amritraj brothers.

[Atithee]

Sin Hombre—Sania is not an inspiration? Wow! I bet you ask any woman tennis player from India after her, and they will unanimously agree that Sania inspired them. I agree that doubles accomplishments are not worthy of elevating you to greatness.

[Sin Hombre]

Mary won her golds when it wasn't even an Olympic sport. I chose not to include those.

Should include Malleswari as well if we count non-Olympic Olympic sports.

I don't see how Kapil Dev missed out on the longevity criteria. He played for India for 15 years. He played a stellar role in both the 1983 World Cup win and the 1985 World Championship of Cricket win in Australia (even though Shastri got the Audi). He introduced hard hitting and pace bowling to a country known for slow batting and spin bowling. He may not have been best all rounder of his generation but that is simply because there were 3 other legends playing at the same time. Still he is the only one with 5000+ test runs and 400+ test wickets that too bowling on dead pitches in India.

Calling Dhyan Chand pre-historic era is not right. Beating Hitler's German team 8-1 in the 1936 final is one of India's greatest sporting achievements. If not for the World War, he would have had 2 more Olympic golds.

If you look at sheer match winning ability among cricketers Anil Kumble would by far be No. 1 though many on this forum would not put him on this list.

Not sure though why you put Ramesh Krishnan and not Vijay Amritraj. Did you mean Ramanathan Krishnan who actually was an inspiration both for Ramesh and the Amritraj brothers.

Meant Ramanathan, thanks for picking up the typo.

Kumble won us a lot of tests at home for sure, but we are winning at an even better rate in the last few years under Kohli. We should dominate at home. Hardly won us tests away or a lot in ODIs.

I think Kapil has been underrated in Indian cricket, maybe because he came from more rural roots in an era of middle class Indian cricketers and partly because he got indicted in Tehelka while others got scot-free. He also stuck around for too long, ala Dhoni.

That said, he was at best the 3rd best all-rounder of his generation behind Imran and Botham and maybe at par with Hadlee. And there were lots of other greats in his era like Marshall, Richards.

Happy to include him but which years would you consider him as undisputedly in the best 5 cricketers of that year? 83, 86 and ?

[rajitghosh]

I wrote a very long post and got timed out

Not going to write an essay again.

Saina and Leander are overrated on here given the forum's history (never been a top 20 player and doubles doesn't count). They can't claim to have inspired anyone either. Mahesh actually gets some kudos for Sumit and Kamran.

Objective criteria,

Low participation individual sport (most Olympic sports) - best in the world
Medium participation individual sport (badminton, chess, pro boxing, motorsport) - top 3 in the world
High participation individual sport (sprinting, tennis, golf) - top 10 in the world

Low participation team sport (field hockey) - best in the world
Medium participation team sport (cricket, rugby, volleyball) - top 5 in the world
High participation team sport (football, basketball) - top 20 in the world

Off this criteria, we get
Bindra
Sindhu, Saina, Padukone
Anand
Milkha Singh, PT Usha
Ramesh Krishnan*
Dhyan Chand
Gavaskar, Kapil Dev, Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Dhoni, Kohli, Ashwin

Add another objective filter in terms of longevity and being undisputedly meeting those criteria for at least 3 years, we are left with
Sindhu, Saina, Anand, Dhyan Chand, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dhoni, Kohli

Add another filter that you should have been the best in the world at least one year, we are left with a smaller group of 5 who all have some criticisms against them

Sindhu
con - not consistent in smaller tournaments, never been #1
pro - 2nd best player in women over the last 5 years (win the OG next year and she will be the best player of her generation)
Anand
con - terrible record against Kasparov
pro - 5th/6th in GOAT rankings, 4-time undisputed world champion, top 10 for 3 decades
Dhyan Chand
con - prehistoric era
pro - considered the Don Bradman / Babe Ruth of field hockey
Tendulkar
con - not considered a match winner
pro - holder of most runs records of all kinds
Kohli
con - choker in big tournaments
pro - phenomenal consistency

Not an obvious pick between these 5 imo.

I don't see how Kapil Dev missed out on the longevity criteria. He played for India for 15 years. He played a stellar role in both the 1983 World Cup win and the 1985 World Championship of Cricket win in Australia (even though Shastri got the Audi). He introduced hard hitting and pace bowling to a country known for slow batting and spin bowling. He may not have been best all rounder of his generation but that is simply because there were 3 other legends playing at the same time. Still he is the only one with 5000+ test runs and 400+ test wickets that too bowling on dead pitches in India.

Calling Dhyan Chand pre-historic era is not right. Beating Hitler's German team 8-1 in the 1936 final is one of India's greatest sporting achievements. If not for the World War, he would have had 2 more Olympic golds.

If you look at sheer match winning ability among cricketers Anil Kumble would by far be No. 1 though many on this forum would not put him on this list.

Not sure though why you put Ramesh Krishnan and not Vijay Amritraj. Did you mean Ramanathan Krishnan who actually was an inspiration both for Ramesh and the Amritraj brothers.

Kapil was great in his early years (78-81) and then had a dream run in the WCC in 1985. He virtually won us the semi final and the final.

[suresh]

@rajitghosh Can we reduce the amount of cut & paste from the post you are quoting? It makes it easier on the eye to parse things. Thanks.

[Atithee]

Yes, please. We don’t need to quote the whole post to respond with few lines.

[prasen9]

Would a moderator kindly move the discussion to a thread talking about India's greatest sports person?

[kujo]

Congratulations P.V. Sindhu !!

[Atithee]

Wow; Sumit’s play at the US Open brought JIC out and Sindhu’s win brought Kujo out of hibernation. Well done Sumit and Sindhu to jolt these forum stalwarts into action.

[kujo]

JIC and kujo are one and the same! just kidding... Hi Atithee!!

After all I have a soft spot for Sindhu - remember this post from almost 7 years back!?
viewtopic.php?f=8246&t=216494&hilit=lit ... 0#p4315665