India's Dream Cricket Test Team

Sandeep · Post by **Sandeep** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:02 pm

Kapil in world IX??? Noway, I don't think he will be there in second string world IX too.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:58 pm

I agree that Kapil cannot be in the all-time World XI. Even Imran would win selection ahead of him, and if we were picking another all-rounder I would probably go with Kallis ahead of Kapil too.
But in terms of your world XI bowlers, I think Hadlee and Wasim are great bowling all-rounders, but I would probably want to pick from among the truly greatest bowlers of all time: Malcolm Marshall (376 wickets, av 20.94, strike-rate 46.7), Sid Barnes (189 wickets in 27 tests at 16.34 each), Fred Truman (307 wickets, av 21.57, strike-rate 49.4). Hadlee (with 429 wickets at an average of 22.29 and a strike-rate of 50.8) would probably come in right behind that threesome. Dennis Lillee's and Ray Lindwall's numbers (in fewer tests over a longer period of time) were also slightly better than Wasim Akram's. When selecting a world XI, the best bowlers ought to be selected, rather than the best all-rounders among the bowlers.

Sandeep · Post by **Sandeep** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:53 pm

I agree, but I was looking for a left, right combination rather than going with two right hand bowlers. A left and right combination, let it be batting or bowling would be very handful. Otherwise I could have gone with Mcgrath also. There are few more things which I considered before selecting Wasim Bhai, like his ability to bowl a yorker at will. His good record in test matches which were played on not so bowler friendly wickets etc. Moreover his ability to bowl against the wind is awesome. Give him ball and ask him to bowl against the wind, his swing will be deadly. I considered all these before selecting a bowler.

Marshall is definitely great great bolwer, but right or wrong I ave this tendency to think that if you are in a great team things are much easier for you. I haven't seen Marshgall bowl anytime, but when you are in a good team you don't play under pressure, you have lot of cushion etc. These things make you bowl with out any restriction or what Cricket pundits call playing freely, or going with his natural ability.

When you are in a not so good team yu have to curtail lot of your qualities for the sake of team. Probably things would have been different for Akram, Hadlee or Kumble too if their team would have put constantly good score on board and ask them to go agressive right from first ball. Unfortunately it is not so. Wasim Akram played most of his career bowling for a team which hardly posted 500 on board even when batting 1st.

While selecting wasim Akram I assumed that since he have great batsman, I don't see any reason why my world team can't score 500 in almost every innings. It is so full of batting. And after scoring 500 Akram, Hadlee and Muralitharan can go all out and devastate the opposition. That was basically how I picked my bowlers. When ever Pakistan put a huge total Akram has a devastating average of 16.

That is the reason why I rate Dravid and Sachin so high. In my view they are the only greatests (In tests) who are in an not so great team. They made the difference. They made a team look good with their batting skills which otherwise would have been a mere puppet in the hands of opposition especially outside India matches.

Dravid if he continues this way (by the end of his career) would definitely be there in my world IX team in place of Lara.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:56 pm

Well Syd Barnes was probably the greatest bowler of all time: he took an average of 7 wickets per test match, and took those wickets at just over 16 runs per wicket; simply the Bradman among bowlers.
Among spinners, I would say that Clarrie Grimmett probably would be the main competitor to Warne and Murali.

Adnan · Post by **Adnan** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:07 am

How can a dream team of India will not have Vijay Merchant. Impossible! How he played the lethal Alec Bedser on a deadly pitch. And the great opening pair of Mushtaq Ali and Merchant that batted so fast that more than 500 were scored in a single day--a record till date!
Merchant has an average of 72 in first class cricket, second only to Sir Don Bradman who has 95 (test average is 99). Ponsford is third. So Merchant can't be ignored.
Now CK Nayudu may be left like WG Grace or Trumper as pioneers who can't be compared. But Vinoo Mankad will be a must in the team. And so will be Mohammad Nissar.
Gavaskar is the natural choice and so is Tendulkar. Now who will be the captain? Can the great Tiger Pataudi who led us to victories aborad be inducted or Wadekar, who was never a great batsman.
Kirmani or Engineer! Yes anyone will do. Though Engineer will be savage in the opening and can fill the void of Mushtaq Ali and open with Merchant or Gavaskar. PKBasu reminds us of Pravir Sen, the only man in the world who stumped Don Bradman!
Tendulkar will be number 4. Now PKB wants Umrigar. Will Vishwanath be considered for the spot or Hazare? Next can be Azhar or Dravid. Surely. So Kapil will be next at number 6. If it was a One Day Team Salim Durrani would be a must.
Nissar will open with Kapil. It will be a deadly combination. After all, Nissar had given fright to England. He is the only genuine fast bowler produced in the country where medium pacers are more common. Will we need Amar Singh then as the third pacer.
Chandrashekhar is must. So is Bedi and Kumble. Let the BCCI choose the captain among them.
1. Merchant
2. Gavaskar
3. Tendulkar
4. Vishwanath/Hazare
5. Dravid/ Azhar
6. Vinoo Mankad
7. Kapil
8. Engineer/Kirmani
9. Mohd Nissar
10. Chandrashekhar
11. Bedi
12 th man Kumble
For LOIs
Sehwag, Salim Durrani can be inducted. Gavaskar dropped. Others we will see later. Cheers

Sandeep · Post by **Sandeep** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:32 am

WOW, thats a team with lot of older generation players. Are you serious when you have a doubt between Dravid and Azhar? IMO Dravid is miles ahead. And why do you think Bedi and Chandrashekhar are better bowlers than Kumble or Harbhajan.

Well I am not trying to argue, as it is your selection. Just curious to know more about cricket and its history

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:30 am

Interesting choices, Adnan. To refresh the memory, I had selected two teams, with very little to choose between them. But I picked Vinoo Mankad to open with Gavaskar instead of Merchant (who I had in my second team). Vinoo of course batted in all 11 positions in the batting order during his career (as did Shastri), but he holds the world record for an opening partnership in tests and was really at least as good a batsman as Merchant (especially when you consider that his best years as a cricketer were taken away by the second World War). And, apart from this, he was one of India's greatest-ever bowlers. So here were my teams:

Sunil Gavaskar (captain) / Vijay Merchant
Vinoo Mankad / Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid / Dilip Vengsarkar
Sachin Tendulkar / Gundappa Vishwanath
Vijay Hazare / Sourav Ganguly (captain)
Mohammed Azharuddin / Mohinder Amarnath
Kapil Dev / Javagal Srinath
Syed Kirmani / Probir Sen
Erapalli Prasanna (10) / Harbhajan Singh
Mohammed Nissar (11) / Bishen Singh Bedi
Anil Kumble (9) / Bhagwat Chandrasekhar

So, Adnan, I did not select Umrigar, although his record was excellent, and he would be very close to selection (probably ahead of Ganguly in the second team), except for the fact that he was even more vulnerable against hostile pace bowling than Ganguly (as shown when he was obliged to face Truman).
Some notes on my selection: Bedi was probably a marginally better bowler than Mankad, but including the latter (because of his magnificent batting) means there is no place for Bedi in the first team. In my book, Prasanna was our greatest off-spinner, marginally ahead of Bhajji. Kumble is clearly our finest leg-spinner (slightly ahead of Chandra) based on his career record. Nissar, Kapil, Pras, Mankad and Kumble would be a beautifully balanced and deadly bowling line-up -- whether in Australia (where Pras, Kapil and Nissar would do the damage; or in India, where the three spinners would be unplayable; or in England, where the two pacers, Vinoo and Kumble would do the damage..).
I think the first-team choice between Azhar and some of the others was really a toss-up with Vengsarkar and Amarnath; frankly, I would probably prefer to play Sehwag instead of Azhar at no. 6 in the first team, but Viru's test career has predominantly been as an opener, and those slots seem well taken by Gavaskar and Mankad. Amarnath had several great series abroad (Windies and Pakistan in 1982-83, Australia 1977-78) but was less consistent over his career than Azhar; Vengsarkar was a quintessential no. 3 (although he batted elsewhere in the order too), but loses the first team spot to the incomparable Dravid.
My main regret is the inability to include VVS Laxman, whose batting is sublime to behold when in full flow, but who has also been plagued by inconsistency.

nayan · Post by **nayan** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:20 am

Hi Adnan,

This is not to criticise you world XI -but just to clear a few facts. Firstly Merchnat and Mushtaq Ali did not score 500 runs in day. They scored 190 after England had scored over 300 runs in the day. Secondly it is a misconception that P Sen is the only wicketkeeper to stump Bradman. Bradman was stumped 11 times in his first class career but never in Test cricket. P Sen stumped Bradman when he was playing for South Australia in 1947-48.

In the last line if you meant for the ODI team- drop Gavaskar and take Sehwag, I would ask you why not take Ganguly (he's one of the greats in ODI even considering his present form). Even though Merchant had a average of 72 in first class cricket his Test average was 47. No doubt he was great cricketer- but I think 10 Test matches are not enough to judge him as the greatest (or one of the greatest). But these are my thoughts don't take it personally

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:53 am

In all fairness, Nayan, Adnan did not imply that Merchant and Mushtaq had scored 500 runs in a day, but that the speed of their scoring enabled over 500 runs to be scored (by both teams). Of course, the speed was primarily Mushtaq Ali's, with Merchant not quite keeping pace.
My main comment on Adnan's team would be that its bowling is a bit unbalanced, with two left arm spinners but no off-spinner. I also think it's difficult to select Chandra ahead of Kumble. The latter can bat, and his bowling record is certainly a bit better than Chandra's was (although Chandra could, of course, be absolutely lethal on his day).

Adnan · Post by **Adnan** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:04 am

Thanks PKB, I couldn't reply Nayan then. For Nayan, it was the Old Trafford Test, England started the day with 173/2 and declared at 571/8. So already 398 runs were scored in the day when India came to bat. Merchant and Mushtaq opened and it was 190/0 at the close of play--a scintillating reply. So in all 588 runs were scored in a single day. The fireworks of Mushtaq played an important role in taking the day's total to such a huge figure. It was a three-day test that ended in a draw. There is no question of anything personal at all.

Adnan · Post by **Adnan** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:48 pm

In the 75th anniversary year of The Cricketer magazine, the task to select best eleven was given to eminent cricketers of these countries. Gavaskar selected India's team. Of course, he did not include himself unlike Hanif Mohammad who not only selected himself (justified) but also put his son Shoaib Mohd as 12th man.
Anyway, Gavaskar's dream team was:

Vijay Merchant
Sachin Tendulkar
Polly Umrigar (C)
Vishwanath
Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Kapil Dev
D Phadkar
Kirmani
Chandra
Prasanna

Isn't Dattu Phadkar overrated by Gavaskar. What's your opinion friends? Was our Shastri a good all-rounder. RJ Shastri, what a man he was. More than 10 centuries, over 150 wickets, more than 3000 ODI runs and also 120-odd wickets.

Sandeep · Post by **Sandeep** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:53 pm

Man in that list except for Sachin and Kapil Dev I haven't see anyone playing. But it is strange that people still are ignoring Dravid. I am sure Dravid is much better than all of them out there (Except for Sachin, which is contentious) .

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:47 am

Despite being an almost fanatical fan of Sunny Gavaskar's, I find his selection utterly weird. Dattu Phadkar ahead of Mohammed Nissar or Srinath? Absurd, unless he's trying to select an ODI team filled with all-rounders. Tendulkar opening the batting is weird too: I presume he had to do this in order to accommodate Vishy, his great rival and brother-in-law to whom Sunny is always extra solicitous. I'm afraid Vishy cannot qualify ahead of Dravid and Vengsarkar.

Red_Indian · Post by **Red_Indian** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:49 am

My first serious *ahem* attempt at a dream Indian TEST team, on an "ideal" pitch:

S. Gavaskar
V. Mankad
R. Dravid
S. Tendulkar
V. Hazare
F. Engineer (w.k.)
Kapil Dev (captain)
A. Kumble
J. Srinath
L Amar Singh
E. Prasanna

Others in the 14:
V. Merchant
V. Sehwag
B.S. Bedi

Something on Ladhabhai Nakum Amar Singh for those who're too lazy to read that Cricinfo profile:

"There is no better bowler in the world today than Amar Singh,'' said Len Hutton in an informal chat with pressmen at Madras in 1970. It was 34 years since the legendary England opening batsman had faced the Indian medium pace bowler while playing for Yorkshire. And it is the perfect tribute to Amar Singh that Hutton still remembered the hard time that the Indian, then a member of the 1936 Indian team, gave him. Another England great Wally Hammond described Amar Singh's bowling as ``he came off the pitch like the crack of doom''. Indeed, Amar Singh, along with Md Nissar was the first great Indian bowler for his accuracy, stamina and ability to make the ball move alarmingly off the air or cut it devastatingly off the pitch.

PKBasu · Post by **PKBasu** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:22 pm

Beautifully balanced team, Kunal, except for the fact that it has 6 bowlers (Mankad was of course the best spinner in the world in the 1948-52 period, so including him as an opening batsman -- the record holder for the highest test opening partnership of all time -- opens up another position for a batsman). I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have Sehwag open with Sunny, and Vinoo come down the order (just ahead of Kapil). For sheer pace, I'd pick Nissar ahead of Amar Singh (although Nissar did migrate to Pakistan after independence). As pace bowlers, both Nissar and Amar Singh were absolutely spectacular -- with astonishing first class averages of 17.7 and 18.35 respectively. And Amar Singh was actually a terrific batsman as well, who top-scored in the second innings of India's inaugural test. So, from your XIV, I'd probably pick Sehwag instead of Srinath. Kapil and Amar Singh would appear to be competitors for the all-rounder's slot, but I think both were marginally better bowlers than Srinath. Perhaps in England and New Zealand, all three pacers could play and Sehwag would be accommodated instead of Prasanna (in England) or Kumble (in New Zealand). Prasanna has to play in Australia and New Zealand; difficult to tell about South Africa (since the great spin trio never played there), but probably three pacers should play there too.

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