New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

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prasen9
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

Here is Hardik's bowling in multi-national ODI tournaments.

2017-2021 24 20 149.5 2 873 17 3/60 51.35 5.82 52.8 0 0

An average of 51.35 at 5.82runs/over. Very poor.

Here is Thakur's:

13 13 93.3 4 564 20 4/67 28.20 6.03 28.0 1 0

Again, more of a wicket-taker but gives away a bit more runs. I would rather take a wicket-taker. I would prefer that person not give away 6 runs/over but on the balance, a wicket-taker is more valuable.

Almost any analysis at the test, ODI, T20I level, shows the same thing. Hardik cannot get people out at the rate Shardul does.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

I dont see Thakur taking India to a respectable total if team is 5/6 down in odi against best teams. His pace is not enough to clean the tail of any team.Our half allrounders looked fool against Bangladesh in spinning tracks despite they play most their domestic in spinning tracks. Performing in spinning track will definately matter for WC selection.I would prefer 2 allrounder ( Hardik, Jadeja), 3 pure pacers and 1 pure spinner, for doing specialist job, definately no places for half allrounders in WC. Hope Aussies include their full team for odis. NZ didnt had 3 top players, Williamson, Southee, Boult. Most surprising was, NZ didnt included Sodhi the most successful NZ spinner who always troubles Indian batters.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

I will also go with both Hardik and Jadeja if both are fit. Hardik and Thakur are not vying for the same spot. Hardik is a much better batter. Thakur is rather useless as an allrounder, which he is not. I would try to see if DLC can reproduce his bowling and batting performances in the matches he got and stay fit. We should play with 3 strike bowling pacers and three spinners, one of whom is Jadeja and Hardik.

Rohit, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul/Kishan, Jadeja, Hardik, Sundar/Kuldeep, Shami/PK, Bumrah, Siraj.

Wrt Sundar/Kuldeep, I'd prefer Sundar but Sundar is a very slow batter. We may feel that Kuldeep is a better bowler but at least the numbers do not show that and Sundar can bowl in the powerplay. Jadeja is also a slow batter but if you want someone who can play cameos then Surya is a choice I suppose but you lose the bowling and fielding a bit. Wrt the 3rd pacer, I'd ideally like someone who can bat. So, I'll try to give more chances to DLC to see if he can cut it. If not, we go with Shami/PK. I like PK's height a bit more and he is a nose ahead wrt bowling but Shami can hit a few 4s that PK absolutely cannot with the bat and with an already big tail, playing PK lengthens that taile even more.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Umran will be destroyed if he is continued to be handled in this way. He can improve only by playing matches not by resting in benches or giving less overs. Indian team management throughout history and still now is very poor in dealing with bowlers having raw pace
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

Tell him to go back to the domestics and bowl. If you give away 16 runs in an over, you do not deserve much more. Basically, all the pacers bowled crap. Crap bowlers will bowl crap. Nothing new there. But, Hardik the captain saw that the pitch was taking spin and did not bowl Hooda his full quota. He should trust real observations on the field and not try to force someone being called a bowler just because they cannot bat.
Last edited by prasen9 on Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Sure. And 26 runs Arshdeep deserve India Cap. You edited very soon, if all other craps can continue why Umran will go in domestic
Last edited by Rajkumar Sharma on Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

Arshdeep is crap but he is less crap than Umran. He gave away 51 in 4 overs, which is less than 16 runs/over. He also took a wicket. Umran did not take any.

Arshdeep averages 19.08runs/wicket and 8.6 runs/over. Umran Malik 26@11.14.
Last edited by prasen9 on Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Anything could have been possible in his remaining 3 overs, as Arshdeep got thrashed for 26 in last over. Umran haven't played enough to be compared with Arshdeep, once they play good number of matches, then it can be predicted who is crap or not? Arshdeep comes into factor when there is swing else he is nothing, yorkers going for full toss neither he has pace to trouble batters in flat tracks, slowly he is becoming Harshal 2.0 who depend on tracks for success
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Mukherjee Babu »

Hardik made a big mistake in not giving Umran more overs, in this type of tracks 130+ with no swing has very little chance for success
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

Crappy bowlers who bowl at 26/over in T20Is @11.11 runs/over should not even be in the team let alone be given more overs after he gave 16. If you want to compare, compare. Arshdeep after 7 matches was way better than this crap. I am not an Arshdeep fan but performance should matter. The main fault is with the selectors for selecting people who do not know where fine leg is and where cover is and are a lottery wrt pitching the ball. The right thing to do would be to provide good coaching and training to Umran to improve his body and his control before throwing him into T20Is where he clearly does not belong.

Yes, anything can happen if you give people more overs but you go by what you saw. You don't play me by saying hey, anything can happen. The guy has been hammered through and through. I do not recall any Indian bowler giving away 11.11 runs/over after 7 matches. He would be lucky to be even carrying drinks in the team.

I am not denying he has potential but I am saying that the right way to develop him is not to get him thrashed in international matches. Bowling line and length is basic and you don't need international matches to do that. In the Indian domestics, he is getting thrashed. Instead of putting someone in a graduate engineering course, maybe first you need to teach him how to do arithmetic.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

The batting seems super crappy. Ishan has shown he cannot really bat in T20Is. He is more of an ODI batsman. Cannot really bat fast consistently. Still, he will keep getting chances and the other guy Jiten or whatever will keep warming the bench. Gill deserves more chances and does Tripathi. They have both failed till date. But, Kishan has gotten enough chances and has been awful.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

Name few indian bowling coaches, NCA member or domestic coaches in entire history who had taught any indian bowlers to bowl fast with line & length, but you can find many bowlers whose career has been ruined to learn line & length after showing so much promise with pace. Primary teachers needs to learn arithmetic himself before teaching a student
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

We have produced some bowlers who are world-class from our coaches. We have produced no bowler by throwing them to the lions in international cricket. Neither has any nation. No player with Umran's credentials really got a long run. Let us assume that we do not have good teachers. But, you cannot throw a middle-school kid who is learning algebra to the IITs and expect them to succeed. I was Pichai's batchmate. So, I know the teachers he had. Some were good. Some were bad. And, I have had kids from some smaller colleges come and do very good work. They did not have good teachers. But, all had to go through the process of learning. Just because your college does not have good teachers, it does not mean that you can throw a kid directly from high school to graduate school at Harvard and expect them to succeed at the highest level in a tough program. Tough luck and really unfortunate but many a sharp student has not succeeded because of lack of good teachers. Seldom has someone thrown into the top level classes, because there is no teacher at home figured out things by taking those highest level classes. 99% of these cases, the students flunk out after 2-3 weeks. Never happened and will possibly never happen. True geniuses like Tendulkar and some absolutely crazy geniuses may be there as exceptions. But, true geniuses show that they are just above everyone's class. SRT did that. As a 15-16 year old, he would go to South Africa and beat the hell out of them. Umran is nothing like that. He has been beaten up in the domestics. There is very little chance he will learn just by being beaten up for runs in international cricket. What happens is the bowler loses confidence, the captain loses confidence in him, the selectors lose confidence in him and then everyone forgets them. Going back to the domestics and the academy and trying to learn how to bowl will do him good. Ask Unadkat.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by prasen9 »

The Allrounder: 33 runs off 3 overs no wickets. 21 runs off 20 balls at more than a run a ball. What an innings! Oops sorry, this is not ODIs. At a rate of 105. Hey Hardik, maybe it is time for a chat with Lord Shardul about how to take wickets? Hardik played a pakistan innings again. Slow and awful. But, this time there is not Kohli to bail him out.
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Re: New Zealand in India 2023 [ 3 Odis & 3T20Is ]

Post by Rajkumar Sharma »

prasen9 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:36 pm We have produced some bowlers who are world-class from our coaches
Well. Who is that world class bowler produced by our coaches who used to hit 145 -150 + mark continuously ?
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