India in England, summer of 2021

[SaniaFan]

Feel bad for Ashwin because he is a better bowler than Jadeja. Way better.

Not sure if stats also say the same thing.

[Kumar]

By the way, historical performance of two players in england before start of this series

Player A batting runs 261 at average 23.72, bowling 18 wickets at 28.11
Player B batting runs 307 runs at 27.90 average , bowling 17 wickets at 42.52


Before start of WTC to remove recency bias
Player A battng runs 232 at 25.77 and bowling 14 wickets at 32.92
Player B batting runs 276 runs at 30.66 and bowling 16 wickets at 42.37

Last 12 months abroad
Player A 107 runs at 17.83 , 16 wickets at 24.5
Player B 276 runs at 27.6, 12 wickets at 33.33 average
Player B 116 runs at 38.66 average, 8 wickets at 18.75 average (exclude england series)


If u consider purely historical performance, the player A is better. If you consider recency bias, player A is better. Well there is just one factor that gives Player B advantage.if u just consider the three matches he played abroad before start of the series.
Essentially player B superior performance in Australia was given way higher weightage, even though the conditions are totally different.


Prasen, considering that u are big on numbers , who do u think should get the nod if only one of them should be selected.

This was my post during the fourth test match. There is very little to separate Ashwin and Jadeja’s batting performance in england until this test match, but Ashwin is far a superior bowler.


Jadeja is a far better test batsman than Ashwin even though Ashwin is technically a better batsman with all shots in his repertoire. Ashwin has a tendency to throw away his wicket while Jadeja puts lot of value. Also, Jadeja probably batted longer to score his runs which ensures that his teAm scores lot more runs. Until this test, Jadeja has been very ordinary in difficult english conditions. But on a fairly easy batting track, he is worth his weight in gold as he proved today.

[prasen9]

Problem is you need Jadeja because he is good with the bat. So do we need two spinners? Maybe not. Feel bad for Ashwin because he is a better bowler than Jadeja. Way better.

Absolutely. I am not suggesting that Jadeja should not be selected. The question is how valuable is Ashwin with his bowling and some more runs than Thakur or Siraj. The team seems to think, in these conditions, the pacers are better. I do not have enough yet to say whether they are right or wrong.

[Atithee]

Kumar, this was a “fairly easy batting track?” This is the same track where both top orders were blown away. Also, facing England’s top bowlers in any condition at home is never fairly easy. Jadeja simply gets no respect. And, that’s a shame. I’m an unabashed fan since many years and my previous posts prove that. Also, as I predicted, we absolutely need bowlers who can bat.

[prasen9]

Jadeja has batted better than the so-called batsmen in the last 3-4 years clearly. Maybe only Kohli has a better record than him at this time. Maybe not that either after Kohli's dropoff. I say drop Kohli give Gill, Iyer, Vihari a few more chances and then rotate to the next tier after keeping those that succeed. I would give Prithvi, Sarfaraz, etc. a fair run. With Rahul, Rohit, and Jadeja taking three spots and Pant the keeper's spot, we need to find three more bats who can bat.

As we have seen in England, the wicket is neither easy nor hard. It is hard for the top-order when the Duke ball is swinging and easy for the bottom when it is not. That is why I still am not very sure that India is in a leading position. We should certainly not play for a draw but try to get the English out for cheap, score fast and then give us enough time to get them out. Each match matters wrt the WTC.

[Kumar]

But if u look at his performance in his last 5 test in england excluding this test it was simply below par(average of 21 runs and bowling average of 45) . The pitch had started to ease a lot when Jadeja came into bat. Still this was a great effort and should build his confidence. Jadeja batting like this is absolutely essential for india’s success.

Jadeja has a temperament of a great test player.

We need to get England cheaply for less than 200. Hope our pacers have still some magic.

[Atithee]

Kumar, I thought you said India is going to lose by an innings?

[Kumar]

Athithee, are u sure I said that! May be u are mistaking me with ssp

They may have slight advantage, but i am not convinced india will win this. They needed to have at least 200 runs lead to feel safe, our top order batting is not very dependable and anything less than 400 would be chased down by England. We need our top 3 batsman to play out at least 30 overs.

[Atithee]

On current form, India will loose by innings. This team is actually on the downward curve and may take while to bottom out. There is very few quality batsman in pipeline

Only a page below the current page in this thread.

[arjun2761]

Kohli looks like he is in serious decline. He has been consistently poor in 2020-2022. However, some of his potential replacements like Hanuma Vihari look worse, so it’s not like he’s blocking anyone with real potential.

[Kumar]

On current form, India will loose by innings. This team is actually on the downward curve and may take while to bottom out. There is very few quality batsman in pipeline

Only a page below the current page in this thread.

Some one has hacked into my account ! .

How is the pitch looking. Do u all expect it to help spinners the last two days? India needs to bat at least thru tea (if not more). This english team is not similar to the 4th test team which got bogged down. Minimum 400+ needed

[Kumar]

Kohli looks like he is in serious decline. He has been consistently poor in 2020-2022. However, some of his potential replacements like Hanuma Vihari look worse, so it’s not like he’s blocking anyone with real potential.

Our next big bet is Sarfaraz khan purely based on domestics. He had decent show in A tour. Need to rope him in for next test series.

Kohli needs to play domestics to recover his form. Couple of hundreds away from all the eyes will see him recover his form.

[SaniaFan]

The pitch is bit up and down now. It will be a very difficult chase for England considering indian attack. 100 more should be enough.

[Sin Hombre]

Kohli is not making a comeback as I have said over the last couple of years. His game has declined technically and mentally, and he is not exactly working on either anymore (gym work is not going to cut it).

As for Jadeja, he is comfortably the best all-rounder in tests over the past 5 years. Ashwin should never play above him anywhere. We would have won in SA if he was fit and played.

This is Jadeja's record home and away over the past 30 tests (second half of his career)



@prasen ; since start of 2018 season with minimum 10 matches away from home



From 2019/20, away from home with min 5 matches, Kohli Pujara and Rahane show how they have been the worst middle order amongst the top 6 teams

[Rajkumar Sharma]

Ashwin's overseas record [ SENA ]clearly indicates he is more effective in bouncy tracks of Australia then in swing & seaming condition of SA Eng & NZ. Laker, Verity, Lock, Underwood, from 40s and 60s played mostly in unprepared, uncovered tracks which offered plenty of juice to the spinners.Even Indian spin quartet exposed conditions brilliantly to win the series in 1971. Comming to modern stars, Swann has got 120 test wickets in 32 matches, Lyon 45 test wickets in 13 test in England, if we match this two modern stars with Ashwin, it seems Ashwin lacked the art of bowling in English Condition as a result he has been least effective,instead of taking wickets he goes for keeping things tight in one end that haven't been benificial to the team.Left arm spinners and leggies have been more effective then finger spinners ( offies) in England. Bhajii has got 14 wickets in 5 tests, a 5 wicket haul where he gone for plenty whereas Kumble has 36 wickets in 10 test in England, as a result Azhar, Ganguly, Dravid has preferred playing Anil over Bhajji in swing & seaming tracks