England in India, February-March 2021

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PKBasu
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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by PKBasu »

Shocking decision by the 3rd umpire in favour of Joe Root, who was plumb LBW, given not out by the on-field umpire, followed by the reviewing (3rd) umpire claiming that the impact on pad was umpire's call, when in reality the impact was plumb in front of off stump. Our home umpires are trying desperately hard to get more international gigs by making decisions in favour of the opposition.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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PKBasu wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:34 am Shocking decision by the 3rd umpire in favour of Joe Root, who was plumb LBW, given not out by the on-field umpire, followed by the reviewing (3rd) umpire claiming that the impact on pad was umpire's call, when in reality the impact was plumb in front of off stump. Our home umpires are trying desperately hard to get more international gigs by making decisions in favour of the opposition.
That was a real shocker of a decision by technology!! I dont think umpires are involved to decide “impact is umpires call”. The ball even kissed the stumps on the way to Pant without dislodging the bails. The impact for all to see was on line and ball hitting half way up the off stump. The same umpire was prompt to give Kohli out when it actually didn’t look very out. Replays showed the dreaded “umpires call” just clipping the bails. No wonder Kohli was livid with the umpire as the 2 decisions he made against the 2 captains were so contrasting - Root looked out but he didn’t give and Kohli was hit high but he promptly gave it out. As PKB says, they want to get into Elite Panel, so they think it’s better to give marginal calls to the English!!!


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Prem wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:11 pm That was a real shocker of a decision by technology!! I dont think umpires are involved to decide “impact is umpires call”.
I think it is the ICC's system. The system says that unless the technology can rule with near certainty that the umpire is wrong, the umpire shall not be over-ruled. In this case, for the impact, the technology was not sure. So, it did not overturn the umpire's call. The umpire did not rule Root out. Since the catch was taken, the umpire did not think that Root was caught. And, if the umpire did not think there was bat, he did not also think that Root was lbw. Otherwise, he would have given Root out.

The technology is showing you one line. But, in actuality, it is not that sure that the ball goes and hits a point. There is a margin of error in the prediction algorithms. So, when it is not sure beyond a threshold, it says "umpire's call". The world thinks that the visualization shown is the ultimate truth and we argue.

There is one reason to go with the technology even though it is not perfect. It is not biased wrt any country and it is not impacted by home-team-ism, crowd pressure, captain pressure, etc.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by Atithee »

The real issue here is that the umpire’s original not out decision—one for the caught behind appeal and not for LBW—was used as the basis for umpire’s call. The umpire never opined on impact; yet, his decision was used to make another umpire’s call.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Impact is part of the lbw decision. If an umpire gives lbw or denies it, he does not say if it was due to impact or due to ball missing stumps or pitching outside leg. The umpire gives one decision overall and that is that. If you want the umpire to spell out each part, and then give umpire's call based on each, then we need to change the system. Right now, the umpire makes one decision. LBW or not. And, he did that. Right decision given the system. The problem with making the umpire spell out the decision for the lbw on all three sub-decisions is that it will take more time and complicate the system. But, it may be done to system more accurate. And, I would be fine with that. So, ask for a different system.

I am delighted to see Kuldeep get a wicket. Siraj had a simple catch dropped. :-( Siraj is fit and tries hard but he has something to work on.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by ssp »

Job done. Pleased to see Kuldeep getting a couple of wickets. Pant's keeping seemed pretty good today, so that's very encouraging. For a change our lower order got lots of runs!
Expecting lots of hot air about the pitch from the English pundits. Let's have 2 more pitches like this :p
Last edited by ssp on Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by rajitghosh »

So India wins. I think quite a few positives came out of this match.
1. Revival of Ashwin the batsman. A few days ago there was a debate on India's greatest all rounder. Ashwin has once again thrown his hat into the ring.
2. Definite improvement in Pant's keeping
3. Availability of Axar as an alternate left arm spinner though he is still not in the Sir Jadeja league.

Let's see what kind of pitch they prepare in Ahmedabad. With the next test being a pink ball test I would expect Bumrah to be back in place of Siraj. Most likely Shami or Shardul would replace Kuldeep. A pink ball test on a turning track would be an interesting proposition.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Kohli said it in the post-game ceremony. Pant shed a lot of weight and has worked a lot on his keeping. That is what we were asking for. Coaching and effort. I was not happy to see him in the IPL with weight around his midsection. Kudos to him that he has shed that. He, as a professional, should take fitness seriously. Even Ashwin said that he has worked on his lower body to get more strength. The focus on fitness is great.

Great to see Kuldeep get two wickets. Washi, Pant, Rohit and Ashwin has played very well with the bat this series. Virat has been okay. Pujara has failed but he has gotten starts. Everyone but Nadeem has bowled well.

Can you really make a spinning pitch in Ahmedabad? We have been told that the pink ball needs grass on the pitch. The other option would be to get a batting pitch for the pink ball and then a rank turner for the last. I'd take a draw in the pink ball test and then a victory at the last test.

Axar is fine as a left-hand spinner replacing Jadeja. But, his batting is not up to the mark for tests. Hope he figures it out and gets some confidence going. We will need his batting. If not, we should strengthen the batting with Thakur instead of Kuldeep.

Crawley and Bairstow should replace Burns and Lawrence in the English side to give their batting some reinforcement. I was impressed with Stone. Stone and Anderson will be a great opening partnership. Moeen has flown back home. Bess is possibly a better spinner and batsman anyway.

I hope we get back Shami and Bhuvi.
Last edited by prasen9 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:42 am, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Kuldeep got a couple of wickets despite being neglected by Kohli, whose extreme dislike for Kuldeep is now about as clear as day. (There are rumours about certain personal habits that Kohli is totally intolerant of, but I cannot give too much credence to those in the absence of evidence). Siraj dropped a real sitter off Kuldeep's bowling (the beneficiary being Root). Given that Kuldeep and Siraj had a physical altercation a few days ago makes this even more troubling.

Anyway, it is clear that Axar has Root's number (he should have got him on 2 in this innings), and that is valuable in itself. That he got a 5-for on test debut is all the better. He does need to bat better, but this pitch wasn't conducive to testing the batting skills of a debutant.

I suspect Bumrah and Thakur will play ahead of Kuldeep and Siraj at Ahmedabad for the next test, Day/Night. It may be a better idea to use rotation as the excuse and play Siraj ahead of Ishant. Gill may be injured, so Mayank may get a look-in.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Kudos to India for a decisive victory in a match that we looked like winning at every stage of the match!

Against Australia, we seemed like losing both the 3rd and 4th test even though we showed a lot of grit in drawing the 3rd test and winning the 4th test from a losing position. So, we only dominated 1 of the 4 tests against Australia.

Looking forward to us dominating 3 of the 4 tests in this series!


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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The other option is to have Hardik bowl and choose him. This is true especially if the pitch has grass and it does not look like we will need a second spinner. We could have Hardik, Ashwin, Shardul, Shami, Siraj. Resting Bumrah and Ishant, who has played two tests back to back.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by karr »

Folks - let's not take this "resting" business to extremes. Ishant bowled a total of 11 overs in the match. That's very different from Bumrah bowling 42 overs in Test #1. Yes, Ishant bowled 34 overs in Test #1, but he should consider Test #2 as a rest! And Bumrah has had a nice break between Tests #1 and #3, so the only reason for Ishant and Bumrah not playing Test #3 should be because we consider their replacements to be more effective, not because Bumrah-Ishant need rest.

BTW, I am a fan of rotating players this entire year as the workload will be high. Aus Series, England, IPL, WTC (hopefully), England again, T20 WC, etc

Shami has started bowling - unsure though if he will be ready to last Test #3 in time for the start of the test. If he is, then great.

I thought Ishant was decent in this game - 35 runs/2 wickets. His Batting was infuriating in Innings 1, but he somewhat recovered by lasting 24 balls (7 runs) in a decent partnership with Ashwin.

Bumrah and Ashwin should be an automatic for Test #3. Pick 2 amongst Ishant/Siraj/Shardul. I suspect Axar too would play and I will fervently hope (I know Prasen won't be happy with mere "hope") that his batting improves immediately.
I will also hope that Gill merely got a bruise and can play Test #3.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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I would hope Shami will be fit and in match shape. Otherwise, he should not be picked. In India, I do not see a clear difference between Bumrah and Ishant and Siraj and Thakur or Shami. So, I'd take Thakur's batting and Siraj's youth. Basically, I want to try out Thakur and Siraj to find out if they are good or not with an eye towards the WTC. We know what Bumrah and Shami are capable of.

In reality, I am sure that Bumrah will be played.

Wrt Axar, I am fully behind him because it is not just hope. He has an average of 35 in FC cricket and is a disciplined bowler. So, we give him chances to see if he improves. But, I do not want us to bank on him as an allrounder. We should play Axar and Hardik, if he can bowl. Or Axar and Thakur.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

Post by Atithee »

Why not give Shaw and Agrawal a chance? They need to stay in the running. Gill should sit down and one of these two should come in. Anyway, our “injuries” enable such selections anyway. So, it’ll likely go this way. Either way, it’s a good idea.


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Re: England in India, February-March 2021

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Because he who cannot be moved will not be moved. ;-)

More seriously, Rahane performed in the first innings in Chennai. So, now it is time to get on Pujara's case. He has a finger injury. Let's rest it. Mayank in Pujara's place. I am having a good track record. I railed against Siraj and he performed. Then, I was on Thakur's back. He performed. In T2, I was on Rahane's case and he performed in perhaps the most vital partnership under pressure. And, now I am officially on Pujara's case. Since it is a pink ball test with the ball seaming around and my record, I am hoping Pujara will be giving a good answer. ;-)

So, Rohit, Mayank, Gill, Kohli, Rahane + Pant, Axar + Ashwin, Thakur, Siraj, Shami.

Or some such combination.