South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
sameerph
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 32927
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:26 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: MUMBAI
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by sameerph »

Thanks,yes Philander does look a bit fairer than other Africans. There were others like him previously too in WI side- Larry Gomes if anyone remembers or Jeff Dujon.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19260
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by prasen9 »

Prashant wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:01 pm "Coloured" is S. African for mixed race. It is generally considered a pejorative / racist term in the US and most other English speaking parts of the world, and we probably shouldn't countenance it here.
I don't know if it is a pejorative here in the U.S. The NAACP calls itself thus. It is not like the n-word.
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

Prashant wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:01 pm
sameerph wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:47 pm Thanks, PKB for that tidbit. What is the difference between Coloureds like Philander and black Africans like Rabada ?
"Coloured" is S. African for mixed race. It is generally considered a pejorative / racist term in the US and most other English speaking parts of the world, and we probably shouldn't countenance it here.
There is absolutely no need for political correctness here. During the apartheid era, South Africa used an elaborate system of racial classification. (And yes, as prasen9 points out, NAACP in the US stands for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). There is much history over South Africa's "Coloured" classification, which applied for instance to Basil D'Oliveira (who appeared pretty white to most of us, but was considered "Coloured" in South Africa and hence barred from playing cricket there; he may, in his prime, have been a better all-rounder than Garry Sobers, but we'll never know because he started playing county cricket only when he was 34, and then played for England a couple of years later!).

"Coloured" is a very interesting category, lost now in the mists of history. The vast majority of "Coloureds" in South Africa were brought to the country (mainly the Cape Province) from India and especially what is now Indonesia in the 16th and 17th century. A small proportion of the latter remained Muslims and are known today as the "Cape Malays". The vast majority converted to Christianity, inter-married and hence became multi-hued -- D'Oliveira and Herschelle Gibbs looked quite white to us, while Philander, Piedt etc look almost Indian. The most famous Coloured politician was Trevor Manuel, who became Finance Minister of South Africa under Nelson Mandela and served for 13 years. Coloured cricketers include Paul Adams, Charl Langeveldt, Ashwell Prince, JP Duminy, Robin Peterson, Gibbs and Philander.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19260
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by prasen9 »

I have called myself (and us Indians) a colored person(s) here in public and not very many raised a brow.
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

PKBasu wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:00 pm A maximum of 98 overs possible tomorrow. So the revised target is 395 in 107 overs, or 384 (with 9 wickets in hand) off 98 overs. Tough ask for SA. But India need early wickets on the final morning. I would start with the pacers, to exploit the uneven bounce on the fifth morning.
Kohli didn't exactly follow the advice implicit in my post yesterday, but it is Mohammed Shami who has beautifully exploited the uneven bounce today with cutters (perfect seam bowling) that has the batsmen in a twist.
Sin Hombre
Member
Member
Posts: 5788
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:59 pm
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by Sin Hombre »

SA have completely collapsed in the first session on day 5.
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

prasen9 wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:12 pm We have been playing with one bowler for four days. Jadeja has been very useful as a batsman in getting quick runs. But, we need another bowler to stand up and run through the RSA batting.
Jadeja (8-4-17-4) demonstrates again why he is an all-format all-rounder!
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

Shami, who took wickets in 2 successive overs and then conceded four in the next one, is replaced by Ashwin. Our pacers have legitimate reasons to be quite angry with the skipper!
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

Excellent bowling this morning by Shami, Jadeja and Ashwin. But now the tail mustn't be allowed to thwart us for too long...
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

Ishant should be allowed to finish off the tail alongside Shami. You can't have a frontline bowler bowling just 3 overs in an innings...
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36881
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by PKBasu »

We let them get at least 100 extra runs in the end, but a 203 run win is still pretty emphatic -- especially after a whole session was lost on the first day, and rain interruptions kept occurring on the rest of the days. Really comprehensive team performance.

We must stop playing test matches at the smaller, unknown grounds. Let Vizag, Pune, Ranchi host ODIs and T20Is by all means. But the tests should be played at Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, Madras, Bangalore, Kanpur -- the traditional test grounds, where there is a large audience for test matches. By not nurturing them, we are destroying the traditional test venues' audiences as well.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19260
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by prasen9 »

I think the key bowling performance was Shami's. He converted the match from having a substantial draw probability to a win for India. The next key was Ashwin's, who got us the lead.

Jadeja was okay. He got six wickets but at 35 runs/wicket. That is somewhat disappointing (the runs/wicket) in India. The six wickets was good. Jadeja's batting and fielding makes him more of an asset. Kuldeep's test bowling is about the same as Jadeja's, marginally better.

Ishant was pretty bad. But, I suppose everyone has a bad match. He has been Bumrah-esque in the last two years or so. So, he is bound to regress to the mean I suppose.

Rohit and Mayank were exceptional. Jadeja and Kohli batted very well. Pujara and Rahane batted well too. Saha and Vihari hit out and did not get a chance to build an innings.

The pitch was okay but did not do us any favors towards *winning* the WC. We need wickets that will show up the flat-track bullies. We don't need grass as we will get in New Zealand but we should roll in a bit of grass to give things a better bounce in the first two days and then faster spin than the dead, slow wicket in the last two days. Still, not a bad pitch but a tad worse than average imho.

Pune's wicket needs to be better than last time's. It needs to be a good sporting wicket, of course, Indian style, meaning breaking up in the last two days.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19260
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by prasen9 »

The pitch has some grass. Please leave that on but don't water it too much so that it breaks on Day 4 and Day 5. Vizag did nothing for us with respect to building a team that can win in England. Or NZ. Or Aus for that matter. The best preparation is to have a fastish, bouncy wicket in Inning 1 and a cracked up one in Inn 2. That way we will get the points but also figure out who among the team can bat and bowl on fastish pitches.
User avatar
jaydeep
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 23792
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:59 am
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: India

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by jaydeep »

It's raining in Pune. So the ball can be swinging due to overcast and little moisture on the pitch.
User avatar
prasen9
Member
Member
Posts: 19260
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: State College, PA
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: South Africa in India, Sept-Oct 2019

Post by prasen9 »

If it is seriously moist and overcast, then we have to shave the grass a bit more to make sure it does not go bananas!
Post Reply