World Cup 2019

[prasen9]

This is a problem with being Indian. I value us respecting our elders but sometimes this goes on too much. Kohli defers to Dhoni to the extent that he rarely goes against what Dhoni says. Shastri is a complete doormat. I wish Kumble was here to tell Dhoni that he needs to hit out and he needs to try to get singles every ball even if he has to come out of the crease or move around to make space and that increases his chances of getting out. That is the problem. Dhoni thinks he can hit boundaries at the end but he cannot like before. He does not seem to realize this (yet). The captain should tell him to maintain say a SR of 80 from ball #20 or so. At least. And 100 if the RRR is above 6 after ball #20. Or something judicious. Now, everyone respects Dhoni so much that they think he is the only one who knows best what to do and let him do it.

Having said that, Pant's keeping is horrible to the spinners. If we have Pant, we need a fourth pacer. If you want Pant, maybe we have to go back to Ishant and hope he can bowl as well as he did in the tests in England. And, Pant has not figured out how to pace an ODI innings yet. That is, of course, the selectors' fault.

One more thing Sin Hombre. The selectors actually invested in Rahane, Pandey, Rahul, Karthik, and Rayudu. Among these unfortunately, nobody showed they can bat with an average over say 37 with a SR around 90. So we have to choose between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee.

[prasen9]

Here are the numbers in the last four years for our batsmen:

Code: Select all

Overall figures
Player		Span		Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s	
V Kohli	        2015-2019	71	71	14	4310	160*	75.61	4400	97.95	19	16	2	393	55	
RG Sharma	2015-2019	73	73	9	3961	208*	61.89	4151	95.42	16	16	4	358	135	
FY Fazal	2016-2016	1	1	1	55	55*	-	61	90.16	0	1	0	7	1	
AT Rayudu	2015-2019	28	26	8	951	124*	52.83	1159	82.05	2	5	3	85	18	
KD Karthik	2017-2019	20	17	8	425	64*	47.22	565	75.22	0	2	2	36	3	
STR Binny	2015-2015	5	5	2	139	77	46.33	116	119.82	0	1	0	13	3	
S Dhawan	2015-2019	69	69	4	2923	143	44.96	3012	97.04	8	15	3	383	35	
KM Jadhav	2015-2019	58	39	13	1154	120	44.38	1121	102.94	2	5	2	118	20	
MS Dhoni	2015-2019	81	63	16	2072	134	44.08	2537	81.67	1	14	3	148	43	
SS Iyer	        2017-2018	6	5	0	210	88	42.00	218	96.33	0	2	0	22	3	
Yuvraj Singh	2017-2017	11	10	1	372	150	41.33	377	98.67	1	1	0	46	7	
AM Rahane	2015-2018	38	36	1	1441	103	41.17	1823	79.04	1	15	0	139	14	
MK Pandey	2015-2018	23	18	6	440	104*	36.66	479	91.85	1	2	2	37	4	
KL Rahul	2016-2019	14	13	3	343	100*	34.30	424	80.89	1	2	1	26	5	
V Shankar	2019-2019	9	5	0	165	46	33.00	171	96.49	0	0	0	14	4	
HH Pandya	2016-2019	45	29	4	731	83	29.24	627	116.58	0	4	2	48	36	
M Vijay	        2015-2015	3	3	0	86	72	28.66	125	68.80	0	1	0	3	2	
DS Kulkarni	2015-2016	8	2	2	27	25*	-	28	96.42	0	0	0	2	1	
SK Raina	2015-2018	13	12	0	299	65	24.91	326	91.71	0	2	2	20	7	
RR Pant	        2018-2019	5	4	0	93	36	23.25	71	130.98	0	0	0	10	3

Pandey almost cracks 37 and 90 but he was not given more than 12 innings. Iyer did but got 5 innings. Raina wasted 12 innings, Rahul got 10 outs. 47 outs went to Dhoni. Why? We could have used that to experiment more with Karthik and Pant, who got 9 outs and 4 outs respectively. Rahane got 35 outs. Wasted! Why was Rohit or Dhawan not rotated to give Rahul say at least 10 more outs? I have no clue. Instead of the chop and change in giving Vijay 5 outs, Pant 4 outs, M. Vijay 3 outs, Yuvraj 9 outs, Iyer 5 outs, Karthik 9 outs, etc. We should have collected them and invested in one or two more players. Not all of them!

Bad selection will come home to haunt us.

And someone should tell Pant that he does not need to bat at 131 in ODIs.

Prasenjit, I made it readable ... - Jaydeep

[Atithee]

At the end of the day, the difference in opening and lower orders will be what will matter. The question about #4 is important but not a game changer.

[prasen9]

The lower order may play a psychological effect in how fast the top order plays and how many risks they may take. But let us look at how many times they got to bat.

Bumrah 5 outs in 49 matches. So, about 10%.
Chahal 4 outs in 41 matches. About 10%.
Jadeja ~70 outs in ~150 matches. About 48%.
Kuldeep 8 outs in 44 matches. About 20%.
Bhuvi 34 outs in 105 matches. About 1 in 3.
Shami 15 outs in 60+ matches. About 25%.

If you need someone to bat about 25% of the time, you pretty much need them to bat! So we can only afford #10 and #11 to be bunnies. Though I would prefer them to practice their batting. The rest need to learn to bat better!

Ahmed 2 in 8. Small sample size. 25%.

I would still want a #4 who can bat fabulously than a tailender who can bat if I am forced to choose. But, we should not have to choose. The bowlers should be asked to take their batting seriously. Maybe Chahal and Bumrah can be excepted. But, Shami and Kuldeep need an hour each day How about getting Sehwag to coach the tail to bat? They would love swinging the bat and Sehwag will tell them to hit every ball

[Sin Hombre]

As for Dhoni's batting, the CI article posted by prasen a couple of weeks back dissected it well. The only times his batting adds value these days is in a low scoring chase (<250) where we have lost quick early wickets.


Kohli is obviously a very poor LOI captain. Even Rohit is significantly better at that. This has again little to do with Dhoni.

We saw that at the Asia cup where an Indian team led by Rohit thrashed Pak (x2) and BD without Kohli and Dhoni. The fact that Kohli needs handholding in close LOI matches is more an indictment of him. His intensity obviously helps India in the test arena but is not very useful it itself in LOIs. A calamitous WC campaign and I can see the LOI captaincy being taken away from him.


@prasen look at England. Buttler averages 40 at a S/R of 118 over his entire career. This is the modern way. We need more unselfish batsmen. If Pant could average 35 at a S/R of 130, that would make him indispensable to this team.

[prasen9]

Hey, give me a batsman that averages 40 and I will take him any day with even a 100 SR. If Pant averages 35 with an SR of 130, he can only be considered for #6 or #7. The problem with having someone who averages 35 is that with 5 of such folks we land up at 175/5 --- not a very healthy total. So, it would depend upon if we can get some solid batsmen at #1-5, then you can turn up Pant who can hit at a SR of 130. If Pant averages 35 with a SR of 130 and someone else averages 45 at an average of 100, it is not a slam-dunk as to who is better. It depends upon how solid the top order is.

I would take 35 at 130 any day with this team. But, he has to play as a batsman. Or improve his keeping.

The solution, of course, is to get our bowlers to bat better. Then, the top order can take more chances and hit earlier. Butler can play that way because England is packed with bowlers who can bat.

[Sin Hombre]

Pant and Vijay Shankar making early claims to the WC squad.

Dhawan and Rohit continue to be out of form. Dhawan's ground fielding is also terrible.

[prasen9]

T20 is not List-A. Yet, the timing is such that the IPL will influence the World Cup selection. It is just human to be more influenced by the latest news/show. I do not mind Pant or Vijay getting in due to their IPL showing. But, I have doubts about folks like Krunal who may do very well in T20s but have not shown that they have it in them to bat in the top 7 in ODIs.

[Sin Hombre]

T20 is not list A, but the best ODI team over the last 2 years plays the two formats very similarly.


Australia without Warner and Smith is destroying Pakistan. At this point, they are the clear second favourites going into the WC.

Finch today: If we had lost today, it would've been my fault for batting so slowly.

While we have Dhawan and Rohit who both bat selfishly for the first 15-20 overs to boost their averages. (Dhawan less so).

[Atithee]

SH—who’s the favorite?

[prasen9]

T20 is not list A, but the best ODI team over the last 2 years plays the two formats very similarly.

You can do that if you have extra bats. That is what T20Is show us. To have extra bats, we need allrounders. That is bowlers who can actually bat *and* bowl. If you want to copy that plan, you should get a #7 and a #8 who can bat and bowl --- at least!

England is clearly the favorite.

Interestingly, SH's second favorite took the opposite path. They actually gave up on trying to play with big hitters and brought Khawaja and Marsh back to give them some people who can actually score some runs (long innings) instead of having people who can only play cameos. And, Handscomb who is a proper batsman instead of the hitting hacks. Maybe the answer is to get four who can score runs and four who can hit. All need to be able to field. And the last three need to be able to bat a bit.

[Sin Hombre]

England are the clear #1 with Australia 2nd.

I don't think it is fair to say Australia don't bat deep. They had Jhye Richardson at 8 and Cummins at 9 against India. And when Starc is back, they will have 3 quicks at 8, 9, 10 who can all bat a bit.

Our problem going into the WC are openers who bat selfishly in the opening PP, middle order that can't rotate the strike nor go big in the death. At this point, all our hopes rest on Shankar replacing Rayadu and Pandya getting his bowling rhythm back and maintaining his IPL hitting form, and Dhawan finding his ICC beast mode somehow.

Shaw's innings today was better than anything I have seen in recent times from our 2 openers who are never rotated. Can you imagine any of our older lot going for a big shot at 99?

[PKBasu]

Shaw and Agarwal really need to be in contention for the World Cup squad. They are special talents, and have demonstrated for a year now that they deserve to be in the ODI mix, having done superbly for India A in List A matches (as well as in first class matches).

[Atithee]

Unfortunately duds like Dhawan and Rohit will be on the plane, not Shaw and Mayank.

[Sin Hombre]

Kohli continues to show that he is a poor LOI captain. Another day, another thrashing.

Warner is in ominous form.

Rayadu fails again - 1(8) and troubled every ball by the genuine pace of Archer. The fact that Kohli and co think he is the ideal #4 makes me