World Cup 2019

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

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Atithee
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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:07 am

Ganguly is proposing Pujara for the #4 slot in Indian ODI team.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:51 am

Pujara and Vijay did not get a fair run because Rohit was preferred by the Mumbai brigade. Rohit has been a solid opener but has his flaws wrt SR at the beginning of his innings.

The problem with any out-of-the-box #4 is that it is a selection based on hope. Right now, I think we are stuck with Rayudu-Dhoni.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by PKBasu » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:38 am

I would pick Mayank Agarwal. He proved his qualities yet again while top-scoring in the Mushtaq Ali Trophy final -- batting at #3 -- with 85* off 57 balls.

But Rayudu, I think, is definitely out. Vijay Shankar is the proven performer, with the ability to contribute with the ball as well. He could be like Sandeep Patil in the 1983 side.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Sin Hombre » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:50 am

PKB and all of us are hoping that we won't see more of Rayadud, but the likely scenario is we will line up with him and Dhoni as the middle order and lose.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Atithee » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:16 am

And the same old same old tired pick by Kumble. We don’t need “greats” to pick up such a Squad:

Anil Kumble’s India squad for World Cup: Virat Kohli (captain), MS Dhoni, Rohit Sharma, Shikhar Dhawan, Kedar Jadhav, Hardik Pandya, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal, Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah, Khaleel Ahmed, Ambati Rayudu, Rishabh Pant and Vijay Shankar.

‘Dud’ayudu is there and so is Dhoni. :puke:



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:39 am

PKBasu wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:38 am
I would pick Mayank Agarwal. He proved his qualities yet again while top-scoring in the Mushtaq Ali Trophy final -- batting at #3 -- with 85* off 57 balls.

But Rayudu, I think, is definitely out. Vijay Shankar is the proven performer, with the ability to contribute with the ball as well. He could be like Sandeep Patil in the 1983 side.
I do not think the team management thinks Rayudu is out.

Vijay Shankar has hardly gotten 5 innings in ODIs. By definition, that cannot be a proven performer. He is an awful bowler. The only hope is that in England dibbly-dobbly bowlers (see Ganguly) can be devastating. However, Ganguly had better control over line and length and swing as a bowler. Shankar is straight up and down. Still, he can give you a 4-0-23-0 spell and that is fine if you want to couple it with Kedar to get a fifth bowler out. But, then your other 4 bowlers have to be wicket-takers. Vijay has taken 2 wickets in 9 matches!

We have to take Pandya as the allrounder. He himself does not take wickets. He will give you one wicket. And, Kedar + Vijay will possibly give you none. The other 3 have to take at least 4 if not more wickets. So, can't afford Jadeja and Pandya and Vijay+Kedar and Bhuvi even though that would make the batting much stronger. Bumrah can give you about two wickets. So will Shami. Kuldeep will do so too.

Having said that, I would be willing to see him at #5 with Dhoni at #4. Dhoni, not because I like him, but because I think he is guaranteed to be in the starting XI barring injuries.

I would take Rayudu in the team because at least he has given some "proof" that he can bat in some situations. The others are all question marks because of our stupid selectors. Iyer, Vijay, Pant, Mayank, etc. were never given a chance. Unfortunately :-( I wouldn't mind replacing Rayudu by say Iyer or even Mayank. But, I have Rayudu and Dhoni going because the selectors have not tried very many other options. There is no way they will have anyone debut during the world cup. So, unfortunately, Mayank is out.

Kumble is pretty close to reality. I think Khalil may be replaced by Jadeja though. Not sure.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Sin Hombre » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:20 am

prasen, the lineup people want with Vijay Shankar means him and Jadhav are not the 5th bowler(s) but the 6th.

Dhawan, Nohit, Kohli, Shankar, Dhoni, Jadhav, Pandya, Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Shami (Chahal against some teams), Bumrah.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by prasen9 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:38 am

Given that the selectors will have Dhoni and the choice is pretty much between Rayudu and Vijay, I will choose Vijay and give him the first group matches, etc. If he fails, I may have to go back to Rayudu. Otherwise, we are set!



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by sameerph » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:36 am

A few month ago, I too was saying that Dhoni should not be part of world cup team as many of you have been saying. But, now seeing the fragility of our middle order and the wicket keeping blunders by Pant, I want Dhoni to be part of the team. At least he does not give his wicket away so easily and his keeping is much better than Pant and Karthik.

I too would like either Mayank Agarwal or Shubhnam Gill for #4 spot. But, unfortunately they have not been given much chances till now. So, it does looks like Kumble's squad is most likely the one to got to the world cup. There can be a few changes- Jadeja,Karthik and Rahul may get the nod over Khaleel, Pant and Rayudu.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by RohitG » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:39 am

Dhoni's talked about weakness is his batting but he brings everything else to the table, great wicketkeeping, good presence of mind for setting the field and his experience helps especially when he's behind the wicket to guide our bowlers. Comparing it with our other options, Dhoni in playing XI is still better. It's just that his role has to be marked before the match itself, i.e. support the other batsman (until we're 6 down) to take his chances and not hog the balls in the excuse of settling down because that is Rohit's role

Meanwhile both Ishant and Rahane have hinted that they are still hopeful of featuring in the world cup courtesy of a good IPL performance. Ishant says he can fit in the role of the 4th pacer while Rahane has said he will try to put on a good show in the IPL to book a spot. Interesting that these 2 have gone ahead and said it to the media directly when quite a few of us think that IPL won't play a role in deciding who gets to sit in that plane.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by SaniaFan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:15 pm

Absolutely agree with comments regarding Dhoni. In fact, it would be interesting to see Kuldeep and Chahal's performance in the matches where Dhoni played and otherwise. Also, regarding the batting, I think team management needs to sort it out. Dhoni is playing in a particular manner and it has to be a team strategy rather than his individual thing because he is not the captain now. We are forgetting we still get some magic also behind the stumps from Dhoni like directing throw to the stumps instead of gathering for runout, catching leg-side edges of the spinners and waiting to break the stumps when batsman's foot drags out for a split second. I don't need to mention what we get with other keepers!!
In fact, the same is true for Rohit's batting at the start of the innings. Team management needs to sort that as well. These things are team decisions about how the game will be played.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by Sin Hombre » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Dhoni played in the 3rd ODI where Kuldeep went for 1/74.

A lot of the Dhoni fandom is based on claiming intangibles and attributing it all to him.

We have not had Dhoni in the test team for a long time and the team has been ranked #1 for the longest stretch in our history. The spinners didn't forget how to bowl and fielders weren't throwing to the wrong end just because Dhoni wasn't there. Even u19 teams know to throw at the right end, this is like the most basic of basics.

Dhoni gets bogged down by spinners and can't rotate the strike anymore. This has zero to do with team management and everything to do with deterioration of his skills over time. This has been the case for years now.

Rohit can't rotate the strike either and can't hit quicks at the start of his innings. Again, nothing to do with team management and he is clearly fatter and less agile than he was a few years back (and he has always struggled with this in any case).

What's 100% on team management is the refusal to give anyone else chances.


What's ridiculous is this

Mayank Agarwal - 0 ODIs
Prithvi Shaw - 0 ODIs
Shubhman Gill - 2 ODIs
Shreyas Iyer - 6 ODIs
Vijay Shankar - 9 ODIs
RIshabh Pant - 9 ODIs

26 in total between 6 of our best prospects.

Rahane who is a terrible player has played almost 4x the ODIs of the group of 6 above combined.

Rayadu himself has played 21 ODIs in the last 6 months alone.

KL has only played 14 ODIs himself. Rohit and Dhawan play every match which means we never have the chance to try someone else as an opener.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by SaniaFan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:13 pm

Picking up a single match is a very unfair argument.

I did some searching on cricinfo. The difference is drastic. But the sample size for matches without Dhoni is small. Still, I'll give data for Kuldeep Yadav for last 12 month.

With Dhoni
Player Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5
Kuldeep Yadav 20 20 191.2 4 932 46 6/25 20.26 4.87 24.9 2 1

Without Dhoni
Kuldeep Yadav 4 4 29.0 0 179 2 1/64 89.50 6.17 87.0 0 0

Oh! BTW I just checked the matches as well and Kuldeep did not go fro 1/74 in third ODI but it was 3/64. He went for 1/74 in the 5th ODI where our fluffer was in action. Not sure if he contributed to it though.
Last edited by SaniaFan on Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by SaniaFan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:29 pm

And I think you are not right about Dhoni's batting as well. Earlier also he used to score slowly during the middle overs. But at that time, most of the times, he was able to hit out towards the end and take India to victory. That is where his skills have deteriorated. But why I am saying it has to do with team management is because they have to define a role for him. Is his role such that he has to bat slowly to keep wickets in hand? I don't know but that is what team management needs to decide. Because most of the time I don't see him attempting to work the ball to take single as well. He needs to be told that he does not have the skill to hit out at the end and so he needs to play faster earlier.
BTW intangibles are there to see. And what replacements do as well. Let me add one more :) It seems Idea to use Shanker to bowl the last over also came from Dhoni(and Rohit).



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Re: World Cup 2019

Post by ankit1407 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:41 pm

It’s more to do with Kohli then with Dhoni himself .. Kohli is terrible captain and needs Dhoni around to see him through in crunch situation..



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