India in England, 2018

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ankit1407
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by ankit1407 »

poor shot from Rahane :(
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Sin Hombre »

The series is gone, the only way to avoid a 5-0 is by getting rid of all of these mental and technical midgets.

Hopefully Bumrah and Bhuvi return in the next couple of tests and we can get rid of Umesh and Ishant. Maybe get Siraj while we wait for Bhuvi.

Pant for Karthik is a no brainer unless the latter can pull a rabbit out of a hat in the second innings.

Vijay, Dhawan and Rahul should all be binned. Rahul can play tests in Australia but as I said before the test, there is no evidence he has any clue against swing. Get Shaw in if we have no one else for the opener role.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by ankit1407 »

For a top order batsman amount of time Pujara gets bowled is just unbelievable... this is going to be an embarrassing defeat ..
Lol DK is gone before Kohli could probably sit down in pavilion ...61-6
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 »

I do not think mass-scale replacements will be any better than several of this lot. We did "replace" Saha by Karthik in a sense. How did the replacement turn out? The crux of the matter is that you need a different type of skill to play well in these conditions. And, none of our batsmen have that skill because they have not played county cricket. Instead of these 2-3 week stints, our young batsmen and batsmen outside the regulars should be told to play county cricket as much as they can even if it is at a lower division.

Having said that, we need to cull the poorest 2-3 and replace them with people in the squad. They have, at least, been practicing in these conditions in the last few weeks. So, I'd say let's get in the reserves and see what they can do.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 »

We have never called up mass-scale replacements in the middle of a series. So, it is unlikely that will happen unless there are injuries. We have to choose from the squad we have. The advantage of trying out Pant and Nair is that if they fail, then we will not be carrying them to the next series. Otherwise, we will be carrying them not knowing if they can cut it or not.

Dhawan, Vijay, and Pujara possibly average around 25 in these conditions. We cannot expect them to be much better now.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Prashant »

Karthik is a joke who has parlayed a quota selection into an India "career". The only complete disappointment for me here is Rahane. I actually hoped for better from him. The rest of them have always been susceptible to good swing bowling.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Sin Hombre »

prasen, the idea is to play the guys who have had success in tough batting conditions in the A tours to SA and England in the last 8 months. Pant, and Shaw and Samarth to a lower extent would be those names.


Bhuvi and Bumrah are not replacements, and our best bowlers who should improve a lot of the drivel bowled by Umesh and Ishant for the most part.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 »

Bhuvi and Bumrah will walk into the XI if they are fit.

I cannot recall a series where replacements were called in mass-scale. So, all of Shaw, Samarth, Vihari, etc. will not be called in. The reliance on the A-team numbers is based on a pretty small sample size and several of those games were played when the weather was hot in Britain. So, as you will see these batsmen will also not be that much better. We need to identify those that are mentally stronger and will fight it out and make changes and hang in there and not make stupid mistakes.

In four innings, Pant and Shaw averaged 63 and 62. Bawne 44, Samarth 42, and Nair 38. Vihari 30. I say play Nair and Pant since they are in the team. Maybe throw in Jadeja if the conditions are indeed dry and will aid spin. Otherwise, we need to bring back Umesh until B&B are fit.

If there is an injury (Kohli?) then bring in Shaw as a replacement. I am fine with that.

Dhawan averages 27(24 inn) in the SANE countries, Rahul averages 23.15(20 innings) in (SAE + Sri Lanka, taken to bring the num of innings to 20, w/o SL it is even wose). Perhaps Rahul takes his place for granted.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by ankit1407 »

It’s likely we will have one if not more replacement/backup players called in given number of injury scares to Kohli , Ashwin and Pandya...

One person who consistently shows a better skill and temperament is Ashwin while batting , no wonder he gets runs when others looks like a fool on the crease ...
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by PKBasu »

Vijay's career should now be over, as of course should DK's test career.

Pant did very well in the India A match, and his 'keeping isn't much worse than DK's so he should play at Trent Bridge. Kuldeep was a big mistake, and he lacked confidence -- thus bowling very badly indeed. Just one good ball that I remember, with a lot of full tosses thrown in.

I would call for Prithwi Shaw as the immediate back-up for Kohli, and Mayank Agarwal as the next man to be called up given his spectacular form and confidence.

If Bhuvi is fit and available, the bowling will improve vastly. Otherwise Umesh must replace Kuldeep. Pandya is a fourth seamer, not a frontline one (as he was used at Lord's).

Pujara needs to practice playing straight. He was bowled because he didn't play straight (into the V), but instead attempted to flick involuntarily to an in-swinger (always fatal!). Rahane needs confidence.

Kohli's musical chairs selection policy (no point blaming it on Shastri, as I am wont to do :) ) is playing havoc with the side.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 »

Vijay in the SEN countries averages 25.13 (30 inn). He can play the bounce in Australia like Rahul can. But not much the swinging ball. Possibly none of our batsmen can. Pujara in the SEN countries is 24.51 (29 inn). See how everyone is averaging around 25? We can't win with these batsmen.

Rahane in the SEN countries is 36.9 (23 inn) most of it accumulated over two years ago!

Only Kohli averages 42.44 (28 inn).

Karthik away excluding Zimbabwe 30.3 (24 inn).

Ashwin in the ASE countries 27.38 (26 inn).

Pandya averages 32.71 overall in 14 inn. Jadeja averages 29.17 (abroad 24.93).

My XI for the next test: Dhawan, Vijay, Rahane, Kohli, Nair, Hardik, Ashwin/Jadeja, Pant, 3 pacers.

I think we know Pujara will not succeed overseas. He is only to play in India. Rahul is dropped to send a message. And, I want to give Dhawan and Vijay last chances. Either they score or they are out forever. Last chance. If we get a new opener as a replacement, I am willing to drop one or the other. It almost does not matter. Given that Vijay has become slow and old, I would take the mental fight that Dhawan can provide. But, he is only to play if the conditions are not seriously overcast. Otherwise, Vijay is marginally better. Not much to choose between them or Rahul.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Atithee »

As I’ve repeatedly said, the cause for India’s cricket decline can be summed up in one TLA—IPL. Any questions? No amount of chopping and churning can make Indian cricket team better. Indian contracted players (first choice ones) are the only ones who play absolutely no domestic or overseas longer duration games, with a few exceptions. If this weren’t a big enough problem, now the foreign players are better acclimated to India in every way thanks to IPL. Most of this acclimatization is less about cricket than non-cricket reasons, which was by far a bigger challenge than actual quality of cricket unless rank turners were prepared. Even on rank turners, Indian players are now unable to handle spin, which was taken for granted, and foreign batsmen have become more confident.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Sin Hombre »

IPL is a strawman.

Leaving aside a couple of years under Ganguly, our team has been dismal in away conditions in tests throughout history.

At least, these days, England, Aus and SA share the same fate and get drubbed even by SL when they visit Asia.
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by PKBasu »

Sin Hombre wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:13 am IPL is a strawman.

Leaving aside a couple of years under Ganguly, our team has been dismal in away conditions in tests throughout history.

At least, these days, England, Aus and SA share the same fate and get drubbed even by SL when they visit Asia.
And one year under Wadekar. Even that one included a lucky escape in the second test of 1971 when the weather intervened, although India also dominated the first test.

The 1986 thrashing of England in England was memorable too. And the 2007 series win (1-0) was under Dravid. DK was a batting hero in that series, but I don't think 11 year old performances are relevant now.

This series has been a washout so far because of the absence of Bhuvi. He is dropped for no reason at all elsewhere. But the place he is really needed most of all is England (and New Zealand), and he has been injured for this crucial series. Absolute tragedy. Nasser always said India needs to look after this guy. We didn't!!
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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Atithee »

I don’t think we’ve been this dismal. And this is one of our stronger teams. With the bygone era, the pastings were largely expected, but the inability to close out the first test and now not even lasting two days for combined two innings is a new low in my opinion. I expected a lost series but not this kind of capitulation. A similar series in NZ a few years ago is the only one that comes to mind. India came back against RSA after losing the first two tests in its last visit there; maybe there is a Kohli pep talk that might turn this series around too.

P.S. PKB, players need to look after themselves. Board can help but it’s not all about BCCI being the culprits here. Indian cricketers’ public God like status is partly to blame here too. They think they are invincibles and not interested in following a strict regimen. At least the yo-yo test ensures that total slobs are not selected.
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