India in England, 2018

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PKBasu
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India in England, 2018

Post by PKBasu » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 am

The first test starts on 1st August at Edgbaston, the 2nd is at Lord’s (starting 9th August), the 3rd at Trent Bridge (Nottingham) starting 18th August, the 4th at Southampton (starting 30th August) and the final test is at the Oval starting on 7th September.

India will also play 3 T20Is and 3 ODIs against England in July, and a few fixtures against Ireland before that, so acclimatisation will not be an issue. The tests at the end of the schedule are an excellent idea.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by PKBasu » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:59 pm

Pujara is going to play for Yorkshire for the three months before the test series starts. I love this guy’s commitment. No better way to prepare than to play home games at Headingley. And he’s arriving early,in April.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:16 pm

If a moderator (Sameer?) could kindly pick up the relevant posts from the RSA thread and put it here, I'd greatly appreciate that.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by S_K_S » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:51 pm

vs England - For an opener we need to go back to the Akash Chopra experiment that worked so well in Australia in 2003. We need someone with the technique to see out the new ball and be able to cope with Anderson/Broad. Be able to play out 100-150 balls and not worry about the runs. Not sure such a player exists. It is certainly not Dhawan or Rahul.

Not sure Pandya is a good idea for England. We need a proper no 6 with good technique. Tempted to push Ashwin upto 6 but will he be able to hold his own against a moving ball? We need to play Ashwin as a bowler because pitches in England will spin.

My batting order is:
1. Vijay
2. ?
3. Rahane (Yes at 3)
4. Kohli
5. Pujara
6. ?
7. Saha
8. Ashwin
9. Bhuvi
10. Shami
11. Bumrah
How about Shubman Gill as an opener? He has the talent and technique in my opinion.

<edit> He opened for Punjab in both of his 1st class matches:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8050 ... y-2017-18/
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8050 ... y-2017-18/



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:21 am

If we think Shrubman can do it, we should get him as one of the 3 openers. More power to shrubs :-) But Shaw has perhaps more experience. The only caution is that for these young players, we can just dream rosy futures. For example, Rahul seems to be having a bit of a challenge figuring things out abroad after starting well. So, somebody who knows whatever they are doing and has observed these players carefully should make the call. Or they can call the other Rahul.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:59 am

Well, the other Rahul already opined. RD's interview Towards the end. Whatever he says is utterly sensible. The path to the team should be via the domestics and then the A-team. Exceptions should be made for superbly talented kids. But the exception should be made on the basis of cold-hearted calculations using evidence of the eye. Meaning that you should be projecting based on the technique, temperament, recommendations of the coaches, etc. that this kid is special. Not special means real special. Anyone who plays for India-19 is special. But, we are talking of Kohli-special and not Unmukt Chand special (as of now).

On this site, I used to rail about selection done with no rhyme or reason. I remember Nilesh Kulkarni. He was thrust in. Failed. Never given a long rope and out. SS Tiwary. If you feel someone is special, then you have to give them a long rope before junking them. You may keep them out if the injured main player comes back but they should then be going to play A-team games or be in the reserve. Saying someone is good enough to be in the first team today and not good enough for the second team after two matches is bizarre.

For example, in ODIs, we gave Fazal 1 match. And then what happened? Rasool one match. Pankaj Singh one. NV Ojha one. Jayant Yadav one match. Why? Why were they good enough to be in the first XI but not the back-up now? I have kept Sundar out of this because he is most possibly going to get more chances. Shardul maybe will get more matches too. KK Nair got two matches. Now we have Iyer. What happened?

Luckily, we have only a few such cases. Selections have become much more evidence-based and rational while preserving the exceptions for the truly extraordinary youngsters. Needs to be a bit more planned.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by sameerph » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 am

That makes me wonder if these talented young players are not blooded at an early age in domestic cricket these days ? There is not a singles under 19 player who has debuted for India in last 10 years, it seems. Prior to that, I think we used to have at least 1 very young player making debut every 2-3 years. Even Virat Kohli made his international debut around 20.

Is it the surfeit of limited overs cricket which is causing that to happen ? Not sure of the reason but will we ever see another Sachin Tendulkar bursting thru at international level at 16+ age ?



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:39 am

SRT got a lot of publicity because of the school record with Kambli. I think we have become more professional. Post hoc, only Virat Kohli was near as talented as SRT. Kohli got a chance later than perhaps he should have because we had the stalwart middle-order batting and we were still trying to figure out whether Raina and Yuvraj were failures even after it was clear they were so on the Test stage. A la Rohit Sharma these days. People like Rahane were made to wait and wait and wait.

In ODIs, we have tried that with Washington Sundar after almost a decade (after Kohli in 2008). Sundar teenager debut

The spinners Maninder, Siva, Hirwani and the keeper Parthiv were arguably hampered by their early debut. I don't know if Parthiv could have done with some more training at the NCA or something similar to get his keeping basics right. Shukla was never given a fair run.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by sameerph » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:54 am

prasen9 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:39 am
SRT got a lot of publicity because of the school record with Kambli. I think we have become more professional. Post hoc, only Virat Kohli was near as talented as SRT. Kohli got a chance later than perhaps he should have because we had the stalwart middle-order batting and we were still trying to figure out whether Raina and Yuvraj were failures even after it was clear they were so on the Test stage. A la Rohit Sharma these days. People like Rahane were made to wait and wait and wait.
Yes, that school record played it's part. But, Sachin was also very good in his early domestic matches at 15-16 years of age.

I don't think Virat started playing at the same age as Sachin in domestics. But, he could have made his test debut earlier than he made when he past 22. Eventually that may be a factor which may preclude him in going past Sachin's records in test match cricket. I think Virat will overhaul Sachin's records in ODI's.

From his early domestic record, I was thinking Prithvi Shaw to be somewhat similar level talent as Sachin/Virat. Perhaps he is not or perhaps Shubman is. Time will tell how they develop.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:42 pm

I am all for blooding Shaw or Gill or Pant provided the latter can keep safely. Or take him as a backup to give him exposure to these conditions. Sachin was a prodigy. You cannot expect to get people to start facing Alan Donalds with aplomb at 15/16! That should happen once in a generation. We should not look to make prodigies out of great players. We will ruin them by not giving them the time to develop.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by Observer » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:17 am

prasen9 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:59 am
Anyone who plays for India-19 is special. But, we are talking of Kohli-special and not Unmukt Chand special (as of now).
Post hoc, only Virat Kohli was near as talented as SRT
From what I can remember VK was never considered prodigious, nowhere near SRT levels. Infact the careers of Unmukt and Virat when they played their U19 world cups were very similar, so effectively "Kohli-special" and "Unmukt-special" were very similar things at 19. Ironically Unmukt might have had a slight edge thanks to his brilliant century in the U19 world cup final.

VK grew consistently and rapidly to become the amazing player that he is today. Its easy to assume today that VK >>> UC but comparing the two at 19 it wasnt obvious at all.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by rajitghosh » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:29 am

prasen9 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:39 am
SRT got a lot of publicity because of the school record with Kambli. I think we have become more professional. Post hoc, only Virat Kohli was near as talented as SRT. Kohli got a chance later than perhaps he should have because we had the stalwart middle-order batting and we were still trying to figure out whether Raina and Yuvraj were failures even after it was clear they were so on the Test stage. A la Rohit Sharma these days. People like Rahane were made to wait and wait and wait.

In ODIs, we have tried that with Washington Sundar after almost a decade (after Kohli in 2008). Sundar teenager debut

The spinners Maninder, Siva, Hirwani and the keeper Parthiv were arguably hampered by their early debut. I don't know if Parthiv could have done with some more training at the NCA or something similar to get his keeping basics right. Shukla was never given a fair run.
There was another player who made a disastrous debut in Australia at the age of 17. After that he was banished, admonished and forgotten for 5 years. When he was selected as an England tour people attributed it to the quota system. He went on to change the way Indian captains are perceived. So child prodigies who fade away can make a comeback.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:59 am

Huh? I thought he was 20/21 officially. Grapevine (reliable) says that was 1-2 years less than what his actual age is/was.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by PKBasu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:55 pm

Kohli too is planning to play county cricket for about a month to prepare for the England series, even if that means missing the one-off test against Afghanistan (their inaugural test, to be played in Hyderabad). This is excellent news.

An India A side will also tour England in June before the test series. Very far-sighted from Vinod Rai and his team of administrators.



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Re: India in England, 2018

Post by prasen9 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:53 pm

Man, send the entire test team if they can get a contract. Rahane, Rahul, Vijay, Dhawan, Saha, Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami, Pandya, Ashwin, and Jadeja should all be told to go and play county cricket. Our A-team should be playing tests against Afghanistan. Maybe Karthik too. Nair, Iyer, whoever. Rohit is needed to captain against Afghanistan though. So, we should keep him back :-)



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