Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Moderator: Moderators
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Sri Lanka in India, 2017
It gives me great pain to create yet another topic with Sri Lanka in it just after we had the series in Sri Lanka. But, some weird sense of obligation and for the sake of completeness here it is. Another thread for another useless series. Cricket is a great leveler. So, who knows this may be one of the epic series of all times. Not.
Anyway, here it is. A match at Eden. Eden's pitch has been relaid and is pace-friendly now as it used to be (ok, it used to be swing-friendly when the "haoa" (breeze) would come from the Ganga when the stadium was not a behemoth). It is a green pitch and I hope the curators and Sourav decide to keep a lush green pitch. If we cannot handle Sri Lanka on a green pitch at home, we need to prune the failures and not take them to South Africa. I'm looking at Dhawan. And Rohit.
I would have played all three openers but if we do so one will play seriously out of position or we would have to push Pujara to Rahane back. That may unsettle a settled middle order. So, the man with the silver spoon in his mouth who has done diddly squat in his test career, Rohit Sharma will possibly be back as the 6th batsman. Our spin bowlers are not pulling up their socks lately. Jadeja is merely #2 and Ashwin #4. Not good enough, I say. We should play Kuldeep. In all seriousness. He needs the exposure. And, for all we know he may be our best bet to get wickets in RSA among the spinners. Ashwin and Jadeja have failed for long outside the sub-continent. Umesh, Shami, and Bhuvi. Now coming back to the openers. Horses for courses. Dhawan and Rahul. In RSA, I would swap Dhawan for Vijay. Vijay is fragile. So, we will keep him fresh by keeping him on the bench
It's time to waste some time watching test cricket again!
Anyway, here it is. A match at Eden. Eden's pitch has been relaid and is pace-friendly now as it used to be (ok, it used to be swing-friendly when the "haoa" (breeze) would come from the Ganga when the stadium was not a behemoth). It is a green pitch and I hope the curators and Sourav decide to keep a lush green pitch. If we cannot handle Sri Lanka on a green pitch at home, we need to prune the failures and not take them to South Africa. I'm looking at Dhawan. And Rohit.
I would have played all three openers but if we do so one will play seriously out of position or we would have to push Pujara to Rahane back. That may unsettle a settled middle order. So, the man with the silver spoon in his mouth who has done diddly squat in his test career, Rohit Sharma will possibly be back as the 6th batsman. Our spin bowlers are not pulling up their socks lately. Jadeja is merely #2 and Ashwin #4. Not good enough, I say. We should play Kuldeep. In all seriousness. He needs the exposure. And, for all we know he may be our best bet to get wickets in RSA among the spinners. Ashwin and Jadeja have failed for long outside the sub-continent. Umesh, Shami, and Bhuvi. Now coming back to the openers. Horses for courses. Dhawan and Rahul. In RSA, I would swap Dhawan for Vijay. Vijay is fragile. So, we will keep him fresh by keeping him on the bench
It's time to waste some time watching test cricket again!
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Ok, when I had said Dhawan and Rahul, I had forgotten that the pitch at the Eden was juicy. Horses for courses. Vijay should have played here. And Dhawan on flatter pitches. Not fair to Vijay, maybe. But, it is also not fair to Umesh that Bhuvi only plays at home on juicy pitches whereas Umesh toils on the unresponsive ones. For the sake of the team, we have to forget what is good for individuals only.
At the end of the first day, India labored to score 17 runs ... for the loss of 3 wickets. And they are playing one batsman short. Why? I don't know. Ashwin and Jadeja are not going to be that useful if the pitch stays as is. But, then Sri Lankan batsmen have been very creative to find ways to get out these days.
At the end of the first day, India labored to score 17 runs ... for the loss of 3 wickets. And they are playing one batsman short. Why? I don't know. Ashwin and Jadeja are not going to be that useful if the pitch stays as is. But, then Sri Lankan batsmen have been very creative to find ways to get out these days.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1450
- Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:04 am
- Antispam: No
- Please enter the middle number: 5
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Rahul and Rahane got out playing the national stroke (outside edge). With a long season coming up outside India I pity these guys. All their technical defeciences will get exposed. Time for chin music and flirting outside off stump. Time for many of them to suffer from greenpitchitis.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
It is a shame because we kept Rahane on and on in the ODI team and now he has gotten into the habit of playing unnecessary shots. I hope he will get his bearings back soon. Australia's team selection shows that they believe that ODIs will rarely be played in bowling conditions and they are willing to concede those matches in exchange for winning more on flatter wickets, which are aplenty. Even though Rahane may be useful in bowling conditions in ODIs, we should just tank them and get the strokemakers in the ODI side to win more on wickets that are more common.
Anyway, India scored 75 runs in the first two days for the loss of 5 wickets. Basically, it has been Pujara and the nincompooops show. Pujara is very technically sound on slow wickets. He should be able to translate this to runs on bouncy and swinging wickets but he has not. This wicket has spongy tennis-ball bounce and it is not terribly slow but also not terribly fast. Hope Pujara scores tons of runs abroad.
Anyway, India scored 75 runs in the first two days for the loss of 5 wickets. Basically, it has been Pujara and the nincompooops show. Pujara is very technically sound on slow wickets. He should be able to translate this to runs on bouncy and swinging wickets but he has not. This wicket has spongy tennis-ball bounce and it is not terribly slow but also not terribly fast. Hope Pujara scores tons of runs abroad.
-
- Member
- Posts: 5766
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:59 pm
- Antispam: No
- Please enter the middle number: 5
- Location: Chicago
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Herath taking the match away from us on the 4th morning with some enterprising batting.
It would be embarrassing to lose here and a major loss of confidence before the tougher tours in SA/Eng/Aus.
It would be embarrassing to lose here and a major loss of confidence before the tougher tours in SA/Eng/Aus.
- PKBasu
- Member
- Posts: 36869
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
The match is meandering toward a draw, but SL have the capacity to implode on the final day. Of course, we could too, but another 151 runs (scored by, say, an hour after lunch) followed by a declaration could still deliver a win.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Yes. India plays 40-45 overs and scores at a quick clip. Then, let them face 53-58 overs.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
The age-old problem of self before team may have caused India to not win the first test. Kohli wanted to wait until he got a 100! I know nobody could guess that India could take 7 wickets in 26 overs. But, why not give yourself the best chance to win? It was clear that play would not go on beyond 4:30pm in Kolkata. So, a declaration 10 overs or even 5 overs before may have given India the best chance to win.
Playing Jadeja and Ashwin on such a pitch was useless as I had said. A wrist-spinner such as Kuldeep would have fared better. I was wrong about Dhawan though. There they made the right choice.
Playing Jadeja and Ashwin on such a pitch was useless as I had said. A wrist-spinner such as Kuldeep would have fared better. I was wrong about Dhawan though. There they made the right choice.
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
That was my first thought too. But may be this case was not as bad as we had some in past. It may not be self interest but fear of loss.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
They knew at max 30 overs could have been bowled. If you give them 5 more overs that would be 35 overs. In the last 9 overs or so, India scored 70 runs. If they are hitting out, then they must have been reasonably confident that they would not lose. That is, they were not thinking self-preservation. I did not check the exact number of runs in the exact overs, but a rough calculation would be that if India batted 5 overs less, they would have scored 40 runs less. So, Sri Lanka would have to score 198 in 35 overs max and the Indian bowlers could slow things down to a crawl if need be to reduce the number of overs. That is more than 5 runs/over. Not doable on that pitch. And, all India has to do is to take a few wickets and then Sri Lanka would be reduced to a crawl. If you give them 7 more overs, it would be 37 overs max and 182. This more doable from SL's perspective but still about 5 runs/over. India should have declared 7-8 overs earlier. If you give them 8 more overs, they still would have to score at 4.5 runs/over. I see no reason why India could not have declared being about 175 runs/ahead on a pitch with bounce and a 5th day pitch (or a 3/4th day pitch if you will). Stupidity!
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
Bhuvaneshwar got wedding leave for two tests. Vijay Shankar is an excellent batsman and barely a bowler. He got 27 wickets from 32 FC matches at 43 runs/piece. He is being touted as an allrounder. He took less wickets than matches in limited over matches too. Don't know if his bowling has magically improved. However, what he provides is a #6 or #7 batsman who can bowl a bit. This seems to say that the team decided that having two spinners is problematic because Jadeja cannot really stay as a specialist bat in tests. So, one among Ashwin and Jadeja will be dropped. Since it is tests, it is possibly going to be Jadeja.
But, do you go with: Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, VijayS/Rohit, Saha, Ashwin, Shami, Umesh, Ishant ? If Bhuvi is not there, the tail is rather long. Shami, Umesh, Ishant. So, you *have* to strengthen the batting. Wrt Rohit vs VijayS, + Rohit is the classier domestic bat, - Rohit has been lacklustre as a MO bat in tests - VijayS can bowl a bit if we need a fifth bowler. The choice should depend upon the pitch. Hope it is lush green and bouncy.
But, do you go with: Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, VijayS/Rohit, Saha, Ashwin, Shami, Umesh, Ishant ? If Bhuvi is not there, the tail is rather long. Shami, Umesh, Ishant. So, you *have* to strengthen the batting. Wrt Rohit vs VijayS, + Rohit is the classier domestic bat, - Rohit has been lacklustre as a MO bat in tests - VijayS can bowl a bit if we need a fifth bowler. The choice should depend upon the pitch. Hope it is lush green and bouncy.
- PKBasu
- Member
- Posts: 36869
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
This was almost exactly what happened! India got the 200-run lead, but played another 3 overs to get to a lead of 230. (30 runs were added off the last 16 balls of the Indian innings) At the time of the declaration, there was really no way to tell when precisely bad light would end the day's play. Had India declared with a lead of only 200, SL would have needed to score those runs off 45 overs -- not an impossible task. Making the target 231 off 42 overs made the task tougher -- and largely ruled out the chances of India losing the first test. (India were actually able to bowl only 26 overs before bad light stopped play, and SL were struggling by then at 75/7). I wouldn't blame Kohli for being mildly selfish, when he had created the opportunity in the first place with an amazing innings, and accelerated even more in the runup to the century (getting to it with a six, and also hitting another six to get to 92 from 86).
But hats off to Bhuvi who bowled 11 overs (8 of them maidens) in the second innings and picked up 4 wickets for a meagre 8 runs. Amazing figures!
Unfortunately, he's not going to play the next two tests (in order to get married), and Ishant will take his place.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
There is no place for even being mildly selfish even if you scored a sublime triple century. In the long run, whether Kohli has one more century or less or whether he has scored 20 runs less will not matter.PKBasu wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:32 am I wouldn't blame Kohli for being mildly selfish, when he had created the opportunity in the first place with an amazing innings, and accelerated even more in the runup to the century (getting to it with a six, and also hitting another six to get to 92 from 86).
Now, the substantial issue that you raised was whether 200 runs could have been scored in 45 overs. First, I don't think this Sri Lanka team could score that fast on that pitch. The pitch had bounce and cracks. So, it had movement off the pitch too. Not easy to bat. And, not easy to score at 4.5 runs/over. Teams always go into a shell after a few wickets lost because they want a draw first. Unlike in ODIs where the chances of a loss forces people to play faster and take risks.
With respect to bad light, a bit of a study of the previous days would have shown that there was no way play could have gone on beyond 4:30pm. If India declared three overs earlier, the Lankans would have gone 33 overs at max --- that was my estimate. I think some folks in the CI commentary made such an estimation too.
Furthermore, I do not get it why cricketers abhor losing but are willing to give up the chance of winning umpteen games so as not to lose! It makes no sense in this case to base considerations on the worst case scenario. If there was a 45% chance of a loss and 55% chance of a win, I would take it and declare. Instead of grinding out overs to make it a 25% chance of win and no chance of a loss. Cricket would also be more exciting and matches will have thrilling finishes.
I do not get it why teams always try to reach "safety" before trying to win. By trying to reach safety, you are actually also taking your opponent to a safer place. Somebody needs to bring some numbers and objectivity to change this aspect of cricket strategy.
- prasen9
- Member
- Posts: 19122
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm
- Please enter the middle number: 1
- Location: State College, PA
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
There come great moments in people's career when the fans start looking at them differently. Different people had different times when they think that a player has achieved greatness. I think Kohli has after this Eden innings. In my mind, I would move Hazare/Laxman to the second team all time and Kohli joins Dravid and Tendulkar in the middle order with allrounder Kapil.
Re: Sri Lanka in India, 2017
When was that for Tendulkar and Dravid?
I absolutely agree with you about going for win even at the risk of losing. I think only Kapil was like that in India.
I absolutely agree with you about going for win even at the risk of losing. I think only Kapil was like that in India.