India in Sri Lanka, July-August 2017

[prasen9]

Yuvi, DK and Rishabh Pant have been dropped from the ODI squad, while the four top test bowlers (Shami, Umesh, Jadeja, Ashwin) have been rested. The squad is: Virat Kohli (capt), Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma (vice-capt), KL Rahul, Manish Pandey, Ajinkya Rahane, Kedar Jadhav, MS Dhoni (wk), Hardik Pandya, Axar Patel, Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Shardul Thakur.

Of these, my batting lineup will be:

Dhawan, Rahul, Kohli, Dhoni, x, Jadhav, Pandya.

Now the x should be Rayudu if we go by performance. But, since he is not there, I would give it to Pandey. Unfortunately, Rohit Sharma, who has been made the vice-captain will take that slot. Among the bowlers, Shami, Unadkat, Binny, Pandya, Chahal, Kuldeep, Axar should be honed. We did right by selecting the spinners. Shami needs more match practice and more experience bowling at the end. Unadkat because we need to hone a left-hander. And, Binny because we need a backup all-rounder to Pandya - I am not advocating playing Binny before Pandya, but, just as a backup.

[PKBasu]

Indian cricket is in really good shape, oozing with talent.

who are world-beaters in the sub-continent.

They have been abysmal in the EAR (England-Australia-RSA) countries.

On the sub-continent, Dhawan and Rahul are our best bet. Abroad, maybe Vijay should get a look-in (instead of Dhawan) if he regains his form and fitness.

You write off India overseas without much recent evidence. India A have just won a One-day tri-series in South Africa quite comprehensively. The talent I speak of includes players like Manish Pandey, Shardul Thakur, Chahal and Axar who shone on that tour and forced their back into the side.

[prasen9]

Mea culpa. I was thinking of tests only.

You want evidence. Here it is. I am taking the last few ODI series against Australia, etc.

v Australia: 1-4.
v South Africa: 0-2.
v England: 3-1.

Overall: 4-7. That is a pretty poor record.

(And I can throw in v Bangladesh: 1-2. v New Zealand: 0-4. But, I won't selectively do that. I said EAR countries. I gave you the evidence.)

Would you do the same? What evidence do you have of the national team performing well against the EAR countries in away series in the recent past? I will wait for that.

Also note that unlike your claim, I have not written off anyone. Every series is a new series. I don't know what will happen. But, India has been abysmal in the EAR countries. I stand by that statement. And, I think the evidence does too.

[PKBasu]

Yuvi, DK and Rishabh Pant have been dropped from the ODI squad, while the four top test bowlers (Shami, Umesh, Jadeja, Ashwin) have been rested. The squad is: Virat Kohli (capt), Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma (vice-capt), KL Rahul, Manish Pandey, Ajinkya Rahane, Kedar Jadhav, MS Dhoni (wk), Hardik Pandya, Axar Patel, Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Shardul Thakur.

Indian cricket is in really good shape, oozing with talent.

It was this post that you responded to, prasen9.
Clear as day that it is about the ODI side.
India have not been abysmal in EAR (England Australia RSA). India won the Champions Trophy in England the last time, and were runners-up this time. Semifinal of the last World Cup, in Australia (undefeated until that loss to Australia).
India A have just won a tri-series in South Africa, beating South Africa A repeatedly.

[prasen9]

India have been abysmal in EAR away tours. This team was selected for an away tour. We manage to do decently in the ICC tournaments because ICC controls the pitches and makes them batting pitches. In away tours, that does not happen and our teams do badly. I will check the ICC tournaments to see what our records are against the EAR countries.

Even including the ICC tournaments and wins against minnows, India's records in these countries is 9-10 in 2015-present. While the term "abysmal" is too harsh, a losing record is a poor record.

[prasen9]

...
It was this post that you responded to, prasen9.
Clear as day that it is about the ODI side.

Absolutely. And, if you read my post, I did accept fault and said "mea culpa". But, the comment about the poor record in the recent past stands, while abysmal it may be not.

[Sin Hombre]

Is this the best Indian test team in good pitches in Asian conditions?

On rank turners, batting technical deficiencies are exposed and we have had better spin technicians in the past.

But on good Asian pitches, this batting lineup is as good as any of ours in the past, and this is a superior bowling and outfielding lineup (slip fielding is a different matter).

[PKBasu]

Pretty close to being the best -- the only other contender being Ganguly's team at their peak (when they won the series in Pakistan).
It would be great to see Kohli's side visiting Pakistan for a test series -- or perhaps even UAE to play Pakistan. But that seems impossible politically at the moment.

[prasen9]

I am not sure, but, we may have played a batting XI of Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly, Dhoni. I would rate that the best. Let us see the current XI. Rahul, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Pandya, Ashwin/Saha. Several of these players are worse than their counterparts above. Maybe Dhawan is better than Gambhir. Pujara averages .02 more than Dravid. That would be a wash. Rahane averages a couple of runs more than Laxman. So, that counts. Pandya averages more than Ganguly now. But, in the long run, I do not know if he will settle down at a level better than him. Sehwag, Tendulkar, and Dhoni are clearly better bats than their counterparts. Overall, I would choose the old XI (and their average will possibly come out to be more in total). Sehwag, Tendulkar, and Dhoni give the oldies more of a boost than what Rahane can make up if we leave out Pandya-Ganguly, which I am doing because of low sample size.

[PKBasu]

Batting-wise, the current team is not quite in the same league as the team that had the Fabulous Five plus Gambhir. But the bowling -- Ashwin, Jadeja/Kuldeep, Shami, Umesh, Pandya -- is stronger (on subcontinental wickets) than Kumble, Harbhajan, Zaheer, Irfan. In actuality, we had Zaheer/Balaji, Irfan, Agarkar, Kumble as the bowling attack in that series in Pakistan (with Sehwag, Yuvraj, Ganguly, Tendulkar pitching in as part-timers). Saha is a marginally better 'keeper, but Dhoni was much the better batsman.

[arjun2761]

On the follow-on debate, we won both matches comfortably when there was a lot of play time left. It will be great to see an analysis if the results are better one way or the other in matches in which 2+ days of play remained (and was playable).

I suspect the follow-on is enforced a lot more often when relatively less time is left (due to actual or prospective inclement weather, for instance) and that could definitely be skewing the data.

[Prashant]

But the bowling -- Ashwin, Jadeja/Kuldeep, Shami, Umesh, Pandya -- is stronger (on subcontinental wickets) than Kumble, Harbhajan, Zaheer, Irfan.

Hmm. I haven't dug into the stats, but discounting Pandya, those foursomes seem pretty equivalent. At least, it wouldn't be an easy choice.

[Sin Hombre]

The stats clearly bear out to how much better the current set is in Asian conditions.

Kumble and Bhajji did win us some famous matches but were nowhere near as consistent.

In Asia, amongst spin bowlers



Amongst pacers




So,
Jadeja = Ashwin > Kumble >> Bhajji

and
Shami >> Umesh = Zaheer > Irfan

I would bring down the averages of Kumble, Bhajji and Zaheer by around 3-4 points if we were to take their peak 20-30 tests which would bring Kumble closer to Jadeja and Ashwin.

Of course, Zaheer in particular had some memorable performances away from Asia.

[PKBasu]

Ashwin and Jadeja have bowling averages and strike rates that are far better than any of our previous spinners (including the great quartet, Gupte, Mankad, Kumble, Harbhajan) had.
Shami's bowling average (slightly below 31) is better tha Zaheer's (nearly 33), although of course Shami's is over a much shorter span. Umesh over Balaji/Agarkar is an easy pick without checking the numbers...

[prasen9]

Did Kapil, Srinath bowl together in any match in '93-'94? I think so. That must have been a temporary high though Kapil may have been almost done.

Similarly, did we have Srinath, Prasad, and Zaheer bowl together in any match?