Virat Kohli Thread

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prasen9
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by prasen9 »

Right. I was going on subjective experiences :p

How about a Bishen Bedi thread? Great bowler. And, he is always in the news saying something nonsensical. Lots to discuss. As an aside, I think we should have a Bedi-Siddhu show on TV. Think about the wisdom that will ooze out. Don't get it wrong. I am a big fan of Punjabis. Our last WC-winning side was chock-full of Punjabis. I like their fighting spirit. But, a Bedi-Siddhu show would a gift to the nation that would just not stop giving!
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by Observer »

I dont know enough about BSB to be able to comment if we would be able to have a good discussion about him way after his retirement. A thread for the famous Indian spin quartet(Chandra, Prasanna, Venkataraghavan, Bedi) might be more apt.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by arjun2761 »

- The imperial complex which makes us Indians consider the sport inferior because India has managed to ace it. We have among the best infra, culture and finances for cricket so it seems only natural to me for India to be doing so well.
At least for me, dominating Cricket isn't as impressive because very few countries with a strong sports culture actually play the sport and we are not truly dominant either. Similar to Kabaddi, for example, where we are actually truly dominant.

Bangladesh, SL, Pakistan, WI etc. are dysfunctional countries in almost all aspects (sports and otherwise) who are generally not good at any other sport or pretty much anything else (with the Jamaican sprinters being the notable exceptions). That leaves England and Australia (and perhaps SA) as the only worthy sporting rivals and we have generally struggled to dominate them. Lately, we have begun to dominate them at home but we generally lose to them when visiting them and infact we struggle against NZ (a country of less than 5 million people, i.e., less than Pune) in the road as well. Unfortunately, despite our success at Cricket, most folks look at Olympics and perhaps the more popular global sports (such as soccer and tennis) as a stronger and more visible measure of a country's sporting achievements.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by Observer »

Kabbaddi is not quite in the same league as cricket, however its awesome that we dominate.
arjun2761 wrote:That leaves England and Australia (and perhaps SA) as the only worthy sporting rivals and we have generally struggled to dominate them.
We are very competent. Playing at home has helped but then it helps everyone. Indian cricket team has been rated very highly consistently for some time now in all formats.
arjun2761 wrote: infact we struggle against NZ (a country of less than 5 million people, i.e., less than Pune) in the road as well.
NZ has a strong sporting culture and dominates the world in Rugby which is very popular in a lot of developed countries. So thats not a strong argument. Besides I dont think we have really struggled against New Zealand.
arjun2761 wrote:most folks look at Olympics and perhaps the more popular global sports (such as soccer and tennis) as a stronger and more visible measure of a country's sporting achievements.
Tennis is a rich man's sport. Only the very affluent can afford to be serious about it in developing countries so that couldnt be considered as a good benchmark. Indias most athletic people are very unlikely to take up tennis. Tennis players in countries with good sporting infrastructure have a huge advantage. So IMO Tennis is not a good measure internationally.

Its not fair to compare developed countries with developing countries in expensive sports. Lets look at some patterns in another developing nation:
- Brazil is great at soccer
- Brazil regularly produces legendary MMA fighters. MMA as a sport requires greater athleticism and technical expertise than say tennis.
What is common between Soccer and Martial Arts:
- Its not Expensive to pursue
- Requires a strong culture
Similarly India has strong cricket culture and cricket is not an expensive sport. That also makes it very well suited for developing countries. Cricket is not as big a sport as Soccer but its big and matured enough. Cricket is by no means an easy sport and IMO we have ample reason to be very proud of our team.

I would love India to do better at the Olympics and Tennis but having come this far in cricket is by no means a mean feat.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by prasen9 »

If you don't know about Bishen Singh Bedi, you can start here: Bishen Singh Bedi's sayings. I hardly saw him play either. But, you know a man is great when you hear one. See Trump.

Maybe some kind moderator will merge the two Virat Kohli threads and move the discussion that are not related to Kohli to a General Thread. I know I always keep asking. Thanks for all the work you guys do to keep this place clean.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by Sin Hombre »

I like Kohli and his captaincy is the reason why I am following Indian cricket again since 2015 (stopped during the Dhoni years outside of the ICC tournaments).

That said, he still has all to prove both as a batsman (win some matches away to Aus/SA/Eng/NZ) and captain (win some matches away to Aus/SA/Eng/NZ) in tests.

He is an LOI ATG but won't be considered at the same level as Viv/SRT until he matches them in at least one WC.


So all considered, too early for this thread.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by prasen9 »

Kohli did win a world cup for us as the 7th batsman. He scored at around 35 runs/innings at 82 SR. That is not earth shattering but it is a competent contribution. India's bench depth at that WC was thin. Without Kohli's batting, we may have struggled to close out one match or two.

In the last world cup, he upped his average to 50 at about the same SR. He was among the top 4- 5 batsmen who did very well. I think Dhoni, Dhawan, Raina, and Kohli batted very well. Rohit was quite good too. The last two batting spots were weak. Rahane did fine. But the #7 bat was not as strong. Ashwin/Jadeja did not do much.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by PKBasu »

29 ODI centuries now for Viraat Kohli, in just 193'matches at an average of over 55 and a strike rate of nearly 92. An absolutely stupendous ODI career so far!
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by Observer »

Sachin lost his best years to a back injury(and then other subsequent injuries), he had to stop playing a lot of shots(including those incredible straight Lofted drives) after 1999. Most people dont realize that Sachin could have had a much better record had he not been severely limited for a significant time which are usually the most fruitful years for a batsman and even after recovering he was never quite regained all of his natural ability.

If Kohli maintains those fitness levels and keeps his high standards for a few more he has a chance to amass numbers better than Tendulkar in ODIs. Its easy to see that its much easier to score runs in the present era than Sachins era with batting averages inflating and there being a number of batsmen who score at or above a Sachinesqe rate.

Kohli scored an amazing 32nd hundred. I wonder how would Sachin fare in this era. I have little doubt that Sachin had significantly more natural ability than Kohli. Its so amazing how India keeps producing these amazing batsmen. Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli....
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by jayakris »

Observer wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:37 amIts so amazing how India keeps producing these amazing batsmen. Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli....
More than the fact that India produces such talents, its is the number of players we have produced with such high level of professionalism and dedication to their craft, like the above names, that is amazing. We just don't see that among the super-talented players in other sports in India. But in cricket, we have had a number of players with such supreme focus to being productive with their talent.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by sameerph »

I guess the reason we do not get such super talents in other sports is the best youth talent in sports gets attracted to cricket due to attention.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by Sin Hombre »

Money and lower level coaching and domestic set up plays a big role.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by prasen9 »

jayakris wrote: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:45 am
Observer wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:37 amIts so amazing how India keeps producing these amazing batsmen. Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli....
More than the fact that India produces such talents, its is the number of players we have produced with such high level of professionalism and dedication to their craft, like the above names, that is amazing. We just don't see that among the super-talented players in other sports in India. But in cricket, we have had a number of players with such supreme focus to being productive with their talent.
Padukone, Saina, Sindhu, Srikanth? Bindra, Rathore, Vijay Kumar, Narang?
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by jayakris »

I don't think any of them came close to guys like Gavaskar, Sachin, and Dravid in being right at the top for so long. Maybe I just have tremendous respect for test batting in cricket as a sports craft that requires focus, concentration, dedication and professionalism like nothing else in all of sports. I mean, two or three mistakes is all you get to make while facing some 200 deliveries to get a hundred over a span of several hours. I don't think any sport activity allows that low a margin of error, requiring so much of dedication and concentration. Think about the number of unforced errors a tennis or badminton players can get away with. Think about how many times our top shooters have been that mistake-free to fire only 9s and 10s and get medals. But these three gentlemen have done it, what, some 120 times between them, with all of them in the top-7 of all time from around the world in test century counts. And they did it time and again over careers that spanned at least 16 years each. Indians are not known for such focus/concentration in any other sports, really, but we have been unusually good when it comes to producing some unbelievable batting monsters with focus in cricket. I know I am comparing apples against and oranges and bananas, and am probably nuts in saying this, but still...

By the way, Viswanathan is probably one that I would respect at the same level, but he is not in a sports event.
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Re: Virat Kohli Thread

Post by prasen9 »

I am not saying that you are wrong. But, we have to take into account how difficult it is to defend a whole court in badminton versus defending a wicket. Then, the width of a bat versus the ball. Then, the amount of time one gets from the point the ball is hit and the cork is hit. I think batsmen are beaten about 10% of the time. Some of the commentators and CI used to show statistics like that. Does someone have a handy reference? Wrt longevity, we have to normalize the career length of these batsmen vis-a-vis the career length of say the top 10% of cricketers and do the same wrt badminton players or shooters. The body cannot do different things for the same lengths of time. Certain reflexes fade faster.

Also, these folks came up through a system that is reasonably mature and support the top players. Maybe except Gavaskar. The other sportsmen do not have that much support. You know that I follow cricket very closely. But, somehow, I respect the other athletes who make it to the top despite having lousy sporting support more. To each his or her own, I suppose.
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