England in India, 2011 ODIs

[jaydeep]

Hopefully Tiwary get another chance in Windies tour.

[prasen9]

For any non-Yuvraj bat, I would bring in Rahane, #1 backup. Yuvraj is replaced by Jadeja, who should be the #2 backup. Rohit is backup #3. After that, there is no clear pecking order. I hope Manoj gets a few more chances. The candidates who have got some games are Uthappa, Yusuf, Parthiv, Karthik. Ones with few games are Vijay, Badrinath, Pujara, and Manoj. Assuming people will get injured, Manoj may remain in the fray.

[Ankit Desai]

For any non-Yuvraj bat, I would bring in Rahane, #1 backup. Yuvraj is replaced by Jadeja, who should be the #2 backup. Rohit is backup #3. After that, there is no clear pecking order. .....

Next World Cup is going to be in Australia/NZ, Better they start preparing a fast/medium pace all rounder. We have enough spin all rounder, Jadeja, Yuvraj, Yusuf, Raina/Virat handy..

-Ankit

[PKBasu]

Hopefully Tiwary get another chance in Windies tour.

Dhoni gave him 5 overs, and Manoj picked up a wicket. In fact, after getting thrashed for 13 runs in his first over, Manoj came up with a nice spell of 1/15 in 4 overs. Tiwary was a regular bowler for India under-19 (in fact, he and Piyush Chawla used to compete for wickets in the same side, with Chawla edging slightly ahead only towards the end). He has completely neglected his bowling after the under-19 stage (as, for instance, Kaif did -- although Tiwary was more of a bowler than Kaif at the junior level). Perhaps his little bowling spell will enable him to retain a place in the squad for the Windies one-dayers -- especially as his fielding is exceptional. In fact, I would think that he and Rohit are prime candidates for the Test middle-order slots as well.

But first, the key question is whether or not he will play in the T20I on Saturday. Yusuf and Uthappa are the others in contention, although the latter will probably have to sit out (given that Rahane still owns the opening slot). It is Yusuf, Jadeja and Manoj competing for two slots in the middle order. Again, I would pick Jadeja over Yusuf on current bowling form (although normally Yusuf would be the better pick for a T20, especially on his batting). Between Yusuf and Manoj I would be neutral.

[PKBasu]

Yet another absolute blinder of an innings from Magnificent Skipper Dhoni. He was very deservedly the Man of the Series.

Beautiful bowling again from Jadeja, who has really come on superbly in this comeback as a wily left-arm orthodox spinner. He is flighting the ball beautifully and has been our main bowler in this series. That he also bats brilliantly is a bonus. He used to be a batting allrounder, but is becoming a bowling allrounder. A quintessential allrounder now. The find of the last 7 ODIs!

[prasen9]

Next World Cup is going to be in Australia/NZ, Better they start preparing a fast/medium pace all rounder. We have enough spin all rounder, Jadeja, Yuvraj, Yusuf, Raina/Virat handy..

-Ankit

There is a difference in the bowling quality between Yuvraj, Jadeja and Yusuf and then Raina and then Virat. They are not all in the same category. Jadeja and Yuvraj can hold their own and on most days complete 10 overs. Yusuf can possibly do so in maybe 25% of the matches. So, really, we have Yuvraj and Jadeja and nobody else.

We don't necessarily need a medium pace allrounder in ODIs per se. #8 to #11 can be all pacers if we have that many pacers and Jadeja can be #7. So, we will have 4 pace and 1 spin with backup spin in Raina. Yusuf should not be in the team for 2015 WC. Virat's slow medium pacers are the #7 bowler if multiple people have a bad day. But, I think we will go with 3 pacers and 2 spinners even in Australia. Unless, you want to go in with 5 medium pacers, having an allrounder who bowls spin is just fine even in Australia.

Ages ago, Sivaramakrishnan and Shastri did wonders in Australia in the WCC tournament, if I remember correctly. So, we just need good bowlers and not all pacers per se. Murali and Warne did very well in Australia. So did Shastri, Afridi, and Vettori as a bowler. In ODIs.

[prasen9]

Cook blamed inexperience. To some extent that is true. Owais Shah has played well in India and has performed better than Bopara and Bairstow.

[Ankit Desai]

There is a difference in the bowling quality between Yuvraj, Jadeja and Yusuf and then Raina and then Virat. They are not all in the same category. Jadeja and Yuvraj can hold their own and on most days complete 10 overs. Yusuf can possibly do so in maybe 25% of the matches. So, really, we have Yuvraj and Jadeja and nobody else.

That is the reason I said Raina/Virat. If both are getting 10 overs quota than we don't need specialist spinner in the XI. About Yuvraj and Jadeja than do you believe, that both will be in the XI at same time ? If yes than Raina and Yuvraj can not be (which is unlikely case right now, unless Yuvraj's fitness keep him away.). So, we are ruling out Jadeja for now, aren't we?

Ages ago, Sivaramakrishnan and Shastri did wonders in Australia in the WCC tournament, if I remember correctly. So, we just need good bowlers and not all pacers per se. Murali and Warne did very well in Australia. So did Shastri, Afridi, and Vettori as a bowler. In ODIs.

As you said ages ago. Not now, Murali and Warner are/were in different league and wrist spinners. They can turn the ball on any pitch so let's keep them out. Vettori is an interesting case, I can give you + here but he is comin from NZ, he played there from childhood so he knows.

All I want to say is our part time bowlers come all rounders can't be same effective as they were on 2010 in subcontinent. Let's not talk about #10 and #11 because Aus/NZ won't gona prepare spinner friendly pitches. They don't have any quality spinner coming out in near future. The way Indian batting line up failed in ENG and historically short pitch delivery are/were our weakness so, I am sure they will explore India in that area. I am not counting SL and Paki batting.

That is why we should have an all rounder with fast/medium pace. Others can do slow arm bowling.

-Ankit

[prasen9]

If you are not proposing that we use an all pace bowling attack, then we can make do with a spin-bowling allrounder. We play four bowlers. All four can be pace and the other a spinner, who happens to be the all-rounder.

In my first XI, as of now, both Yuvraj and Raina are there. Jadeja is a backup. In four years, who knows what will happen.

[Ankit Desai]

If you are not proposing that we use an all pace bowling attack, then we can make do with a spin-bowling allrounder. We play four bowlers. All four can be pace and the other a spinner, who happens to be the all-rounder.

In my first XI, as of now, both Yuvraj and Raina are there. Jadeja is a backup. In four years, who knows what will happen.

I am proposing to play 3 pacers + 1 Genuine Spinner + 1 pace all rounder. Out of Yuvraj/Raina/Virat/Jadeja (regular batsmen), who ever will get chance can perform part timer's role and can be 6th/7th bowler.

I agree on

In four years, who knows what will happen

And I am seeing yuvraj out of 2015 WC, as in my personal view he failed with his fitness. Four years is long time.

But going by current squad formations in recent past, that all rounder slot filled out by spinner all rounder and no effort was made to get a pace all rounder. I am banking on Amarnath !? Future Kangaroo and Kiwi land's trips will decide the formation.

-Ankit

[Atithee]

Ankit, welcome to the discussion but you should know that India has no pacers who command a place in the team just for their bowling. That is if India has any pacers to begin with. Honestly, our "genuine" spinners are becoming extinct too and, in fact, foreign spinners seem to be more of a weapon, even against India (at least in tests). Are you aware of the "Atithee" theory on Indian ODI team selection?

[prasen9]

I think India should go with the Atithee theory and target 350 runs every innings. That is a very good theory awaiting testing.

Among the current top-7, SRT certainly will be gone. Most possibly Sehwag too. And as you said, Yuvraj has a lot of miles on his tires. Maybe Harbhajan too will be gone. The youngsters now look: Gambhir, Uthappa, Rahane, Kohli, Rohit, Raina, Dhoni, Jadeja. Of course, some, at least 3-4, new guys will also emerge in four years. I like Saurabh Tiwary.

[PKBasu]

Of the two Tiwarys, I am more convinced of Manoj than Saurabh. The latter has played in the Plate league of the Ranji, and has not dominated even there. He came to the fore through the IPL, but his first-class batting average (over fewer seasons) is a full 10 runs/innings below Manoj's. He got a couple of home ODIs against NZ, but I think he is still a work in progress -- not a finished article. One for the future, but one who is not necessarily going to make it. Manoj averaged nearly 100 in a domestic season when he was first picked for India, but unfortunately injured himself before his first game. The following season, Uthappa got picked ahead of him (on the basis of doing a bit better that season). Manoj has continued to perform at every level just below the national side, so I think he still deserves a proper look-in (by which I mean 3-5 games in a row, not one game at a time).

[Ankit Desai]

Ankit, welcome to the discussion but you should know that India has no pacers who command a place in the team just for their bowling.

You killed whole excitement.

-Ankit

[PKBasu]

Allrounders like Irfan, Praveen, Vinay (in that order) are probably right for the #7 or 8 spot in the ODI side. Irfan is a proven performer in Australia (MoM in the Perth test victory) and now Vinay has done well there too (in the Emerging players tourney).