New Zealand in India, 2010

[PKBasu]

India made a bright start after losing the toss in Guwahati, with Murali Vijay playing some delectable strokes -- off-drives, on-drives, straight-drives, flicks and pulls -- before he got a bit over-confident, slashed at a short ball (that he had stepped out to) and was caught by the 'keeper off a skier halfway to the boundary. At 90/1 off 15 overs, India were on top, but have lost their way a bit in the last 3 overs, with Gambhir falling tamely to a wide ball from McKay. India 103/2 in 18.4 overs.

On a difficult wicket, in overcast conditions that are ideal for NZ bowlers, I wouldn't call 29 off 32 balls a failure. He did his job as an opener in those conditions, blunting the new, swinging ball very effectively indeed.

[prasen9]

On a difficult wicket, in overcast conditions that are ideal for NZ bowlers, I wouldn't call 29 off 32 balls a failure. He did his job as an opener in those conditions, blunting the new, swinging ball very effectively indeed.

Oh, please. This is getting to the level of sycophancy now. The job of an opener is not to score a fast cameo. There is no doubt he played well as long as he was at the wicket. But, he failed to continue onto a decent innings. Throwing away his wicket and not continuing is criminal. Batsmen, especially, top order need to make at least 40+ to be considered a success and while the conditions are mildly trying, his string of failures in five matches does not give him much rope. A pig is a pig despite however much lipstick you apply to it, and a failure is a failure. Whether it is a complete failure or a mild failure does not matter. If all our top bats go for below 30, we will have less than 250.

[prasen9]

What a hundred by Kohli and all the batsmen after Yuvraj, maybe except Yusuf, wasted his gem of an innings. Yusuf was lucky that he was dropped three times. India was about 160-2 or so in 30 overs. 320 was there to get if the lower order batted well. Raina played a couple of pre-meditated shots and did not connect and then the third time he went. Maybe they should not have Raina when they take the power play. He thinks he has to hit every ball out of the park during the power play. The good part was to see Kohli get out at 105 and then when he got out he was very disappointed. It was as if he was out for 5. I like that type of an attitude. Yusuf, Saha and Ashwin have used the bat well against Indian domestic bowlers. But, when McKay was bowling at 140kph and bowling short balls and mixing up the speed, Yusuf was not fully in control and Saha and Ashwin got sorted out. These guys have some ways to go.

[PKBasu]

Terrific innings from Virat Kohli, who makes his second successive ODI century. (Where is "genius", by the way??!). The lower order did poorly after Kohli had set up the match nicely. Saha didn't do himself any favours by fishing at a good ball outside his off-stump, and Ashwin was undone by a rising ball. So India finish on 276, not necessarily a winning total on this pitch -- especially with the sun out when NZ bat.

As for prasen9's charge of sycophancy with regard to Vijay, I am happy to accept the charge: Vijay is a treat to watch, and has shown that he has the temperament for the big game. I agree he hasn't yet cemented his place in the ODI squad -- he clearly needs to go on and play a big innings to do that. But I'm glad the selectors aren't going to be as fickle as prasen9 wants them to be. When a batsman shows class and ability, it is best to persist with him for awhile before moving onto the next man. We have had trouble finding too many openers even for ODI cricket as stand-ins for Sehwag and Gambhir, and Vijay still has the makings of the man who could be that perfect stand-by. I hope he makes a fifty soon to cement his position as our #3 opener.

[prasen9]

PKB, I have not called for Vijay to be dropped per se. I have said that he failed in this innings. I would put SRT, VS, GG, VK, YS, MSD, SR before Vijay. Vijay may be very good to watch and you may want to watch him. That is your prerogative. I want the selectors to select all of the ones mentioned before Vijay. Now, for the 8th bat, if I am choosing, I would choose a lower order batsman like Ravindra Jadeja. I do not mind Vijay being preferred to Uthappa or Dhawan for that matter. But, I think Jadeja and Uthappa have certainly done much more than Vijay in the shorter form of the game and U. should have been preferred if he is fit. Dhawan has certainly done more in the domestic List A matches and should be given a long run to see if he can cut it. I would have supported firming up a failing Vijay if he had shown the technique like Pujara but I have doubts about his technique because of his failures in six ODIs and six T20s, some of them perhaps in Zimbabwe or West Indies where I saw that he was not that good. He has certainly done well in tests and should be the first reserve. However, he has not been able to adapt to the shorter form of the game and tried to be too aggressive. So, if I were to invest in an opener in ODIs, I would rather invest in Uthappa and take a long-term view and groom Jadeja. As for opening in ODIs, many MO bats like Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly have opened in ODIs and we could get perhaps Saha to open and play a MO bat extra. At least on Indian wickets, I do not think we need regular openers. The Aussies regularly have moved the likes of Tim Paine, Watson, Haddin to open in ODIs and MO bats Katich and Watson in tests and they have worked out well. In tests, I would be reluctant to put a MO bat down but in ODIs or T20s, I am fine with moving players there.

Oh, one more thing. The tail of Nehra, Munaf, and Sreesanth is a nightmare. You cannot have such a long tail. For that reason, they should at least not be as fickle in dropping Vinay Kumar, who can bat a bit better. Just rest Sreesanth; what is the big deal there?

Now, Vijay does something wonderful. He gets a fabulous catch to get rid of How. Kudos to Gambhir and Nehra for putting him there too.

[PKBasu]

Nice win by India. Ashwin again bowled very well. Nehra continues to show why he should be in the ODI side. But he absolutely must bat at #11, not at #9 as he did today and put unnecessary pressure on Yusuf by taking way too many balls to score nothing. Saha did a fine job behind the stumps, but he needs to show more with his batting. I think we are experimenting nicely for the future, and testing who from this crop will make the XI for the World Cup. Yuvraj did well with bat and ball, which was good to see.

[PKBasu]

prasen9, from the current squad only Sourabh Tiwary or Jadeja could possibly take Vijay's place. And certainly, today's performance doesn't justify him being replaced for the next game. I presume Jadeja and Ashwin are competing for one place. I do think that Vinay Kumar should be picked for the next game, although replacing Munaf will be a bit unfair, as he bowled reasonably well. Sreesanth did well to finish off the innings, which Vinay Kumar is unlikely to be able to do. I think the only possible change for the next one is likely to be Vinay Kumar for Munaf.

[prasen9]

I am wary of Sreesanth picking up an injury. Also, this was one match where Sreesanth picked up wickets. Munaf was being played as the stock bowler. I do not know if Munaf still has it in him to strike as much as Sreesanth does, but, it would be interesting to see. It is not like Munaf cannot take wickets. What was good to see was Munaf's commitment on the field. He saved a single at mid-on, then at long on ran in and lunged forward to get a catch, and then twice at fine-leg/backward-short-leg area ran around and stopped fours. He seems to have improved his fielding. Quite heartening.

I am not asking Vijay should be dropped right away, but, he needs a big score and should put more value on his wicket. I agree that today's performance was a borderline failure and on the basis of that alone he should not be dropped. He did play some wonderful strokes, but, he has to learn not to throw it away. He needs to adjust like Kohli has done.

For the next match, Jadeja for Yusuf please. I can live with Vijay, but, do we really need a big-hitter who can score 20-30 runs at max? How can Jadeja forget how to hit all of a sudden?

[akmohanty]

For the next match, Jadeja for Yusuf please. I can live with Vijay, but, do we really need a big-hitter who can score 20-30 runs at max? How can Jadeja forget how to hit all of a sudden?

I don't really remember any match where jadeja changed the course with either big hitting or anchoring. on the contrary, yusuf has quite a few instances where his big hitting has or almost has made the difference. even in yesterday's match, he was the only reason why we crossed 250. he tried his best and was largely successful in improving the scoring, before getting out going for more given P3 was on. i think it was a fair attempt on his part given he was quickly running out of partners.
i am not saying he should get a permanent place, but atleast worth giving a few more chances.

[prasen9]

I don't really remember any match where jadeja changed the course with either big hitting or anchoring. on the contrary, yusuf has quite a few instances where his big hitting has or almost has made the difference. even in yesterday's match, he was the only reason why we crossed 250. he tried his best and was largely successful in improving the scoring, before getting out going for more given P3 was on. i think it was a fair attempt on his part given he was quickly running out of partners.
i am not saying he should get a permanent place, but atleast worth giving a few more chances.

If you are talking of making a difference, the only folks who made a real difference were Kohli, Yuvraj, and the bowlers. Did you see Yusuf bat? I watched his entire innings. He was slogging all the while and was dropped three times. He was certainly not the only reason why India crossed 250. The other reasons go by the names of Kohli, Yuvraj, Gambhir, and Vijay. In fact, his contribution was meagre at that. A #6 or #7 bat is expected to score a fast 20-30 runs. That should not be taken as some kind of heroic act.

It is difficult to argue about changing the course of the match. Yusuf certainly did not change the course of India's innings but continued the innings on the same tragectory. As to matches where Jadeja hit big. Here are a few. Hyderabad versus Australia, 2009, 17 ball 23. Sri Lanka, Rajkot, 2009, 17 ball 30*, Nagpur, 6 ball 12. Sri Lanka, Dhaka, 2010, 34 ball 39. Admittedly, recently, Jadeja has not done much with the bat. But, he could hit big at one point of time. See the first IPL or so. He should be asked to just go out and hit. I am also not saying that Jadeja deserves a place in the first XI for the WC, but, he is a more classy batsman than Yusuf, the slogger. Basically, Yusuf can be easily sorted out by a pacy bowler who can bowl a few good short balls.

Regarding anchoring, Jadeja has 4 50s in 22 innings (5 not out). Yusuf has 2 in 27 innings (9 not out). On the whole, I think Yusuf is basically a hack. A power only guy. Jadeja seems a more complete batsman. That is why I support him.

[akmohanty]

It is difficult to argue about changing the course of the match. Yusuf certainly did not change the course of India's innings but continued the innings on the same tragectory.

that in itself was getting difficult towards the end. apart from him, no one in the lower middle order managed to get into double figures. immediately after P3 was taken, kohli got out (btw, i just happened to mention 250 but now realise kohli got out exactly at 250). no one else seemed to take the attack to the bowlers except yusuf.
he scored 29 off 19 balls, i.e., approx 10 runs per over in the close to 3 overs he got. i don't think that's a below-average performance by any stretch of imagination. looking at the scorecard, he was the only one who had a strike rate significantly higher 100% (152.63%).
the performance that sticks to my mind when comparing jadeja and yusuf is that T20 match against Eng in the World Cup last year where jadeja made a fool of himself and screwed up our chances while yusuf and dhoni came in later to do what only they do best and bring us close.

[prasen9]

If you saw Yusuf bat, you would have seen how ugly he was playing. It was a bunch of mishits except one or two shots. Pathan's innings was largely inconsequential except that it gave a bit more cushion wrt the win margin. That the others after him Saha, Ashwin were shown up to be playing like novices and failed even more than him does not mean that Yusuf succeeded. Strike-rate only does not matter by itself. Yusuf got out to a full-toss after giving a catch for the fourth time and India batted an over less. Who told him to bat for three overs and not one more over? His bowling was total garbage. All in all, his innings was an ugly one and not really of consequence enough. One can always find an anecdote where Tendulkar failed and SS Das succeeded or something like that. Jadeja is a much classier batsman than Yusuf, a brilliant fielder, a slightly better bowler and is maybe 5-6 years younger to Yusuf. My preference for Jadeja is based on their work with the bat and the ball and in the field over their careers and not based on one match. Yusuf's deficiencies against fast hostile bowling are too glaring. Jadeja is also not that good but at least he has a better technique and can be made to work to fix the smaller flaws. What Yusuf does best is slog ugly and get out. He has won very few matches for India despite all the hype. Just look at his record.

[akmohanty]

i have seen him playing, and yes, his shots would be classified as slogs but that's exactly what was needed at that time. and, the example i have mentioned was in England and not India. If that's not showing lack of technique by jadeja, what is?
moreover, the question here is about specifically the #7 spot, which needs a pinch-hitter. i cannot envision jadeja ever fitting into that slot while it isn't hard to think of either of the pathans fitting into it if they worked on their consistency. jadeja would be in competition with the ones in the higher middle order based on his supposed 'technical skills'. however, those slots are already filled up by likes of kohli, raina, yuvraj.
his bowling may at times be more economical than yusuf's but it is not miles ahead. all in all, i would bet on yusuf or irfan than an itsy-bitsy player like jadeja.

[PKBasu]

Yusuf's innings was far from inconsequential. India needed to accelerate, and he did the job well, although it was a pity that he holed out (albeit to an incredibly good catch at cover). The clean six and four he hit were emblematic of a special talent. The simple memory that we all have is of Yusuf Pathan making his debut for India (in any form of the game) in the final of the T20 world championship in 2007, opening the batting and setting the place ablaze with a short cameo that got India on its way to victory. Unfortunately, my memory of Jadeja is clouded by the innings he played in the 2009 T20 world championship (for which I had pre-ordered a pair of final tickets ): in the key game against England, Jadeja went in at #3, ate up more than half the overs and failed to accelerate.

It was inappropriate to give the youngster that job, but unfortunately he failed spectacularly. I think Jadeja is definitely one for the future. But for the #7 slot we need a pinch-hitter and Yusuf remains a strong contender for that slot. His bowling got clobbered yesterday, but he has shown in the Ranji this year that he is a pretty decent bowler. If his brother is unavailable, I would certainly consider Yusuf a contender for the full ODI squad, slightly ahead of Jadeja at the moment. But he needs to develop more consistency with the bat, and greater confidence in his own bowling.

[prasen9]

AKM, I think we differ in what we want in the #6/#7 bat. I am guessing you did not see the last innings by Yusuf. It was more ugly than his usual. If you did, you would not argue that it was a good innings. He is perfectly fine when bowlers are bowling under 140kph, but, finds it hard when bowlers like McKay bowl at pace. So if you saw him against cupcake medium pacers, then you did not see him struggle like he did yesterday with more mishits than the few clean hits PKB mentioned. Anyway, the #6/#7 bat must be able to hang around and grit it when all of a sudden India loses quick wickets. Yusuf is incapable of doing that. I do not think the best option at #6 is a pure slogger especially one whose bowling does not add anything to the team. The ideal #6 in my mind is Bevan and you can be a very good #6 without slogging. If you do not like Jadeja, I would be fine in investing in Sourav Tiwary or anybody else. Now, if you are talking of the other Pathan, then I am a big fan. He hits cleanly but is not a bunny to fast and short bowling. If you are talking of failures, even a cursory look at Yusuf's career record will show you how many failures he has had. It is extremely unfair to the likes of Uthappa and others who did much more than Yusuf but find themselves out of the team while a person who keeps failing gets chance after chance. He is the next Karthik, I guess.

I will refer you to this commentary. http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-new ... commentary Except for the six and the four in 47.1 and 47.2, see the number of mishits Pathan had and drops.