England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

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puneets
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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by puneets »

sanjay8886 wrote:Why do we need to discount last 10-12 innings of Dravid? Is it becoz he did not play those innings or may be he did not get paid for those innings? Is he not t
Because in order to compare who needs a longer rope for rescue (which is just a hypothetical exercise), you have to consider the situation where everyone is judged under similar conditions.
I'm not saying that the selection committee should discount those innings. All I was saying is that prasen's list is faulty because it considers different people under different circumstances.

So it would make sense to compare Dravid's rut to Tendulkar's phase when things like "ENDulkar" etc were being reported, and not to the current Tendulkar.


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Atithee
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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by Atithee »

Perhaps this could shine some light on this debate:

Is Dravid done with the runs?

You are the judge!


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by arjun2761 »

puneets wrote:
sanjay8886 wrote:Why do we need to discount last 10-12 innings of Dravid? Is it becoz he did not play those innings or may be he did not get paid for those innings? Is he not t
Because in order to compare who needs a longer rope for rescue (which is just a hypothetical exercise), you have to consider the situation where everyone is judged under similar conditions.
I'm not saying that the selection committee should discount those innings. All I was saying is that prasen's list is faulty because it considers different people under different circumstances.

So it would make sense to compare Dravid's rut to Tendulkar's phase when things like "ENDulkar" etc were being reported, and not to the current Tendulkar.
This discussion seems to assume that age and potential has no impact on this discussion. I would argue that age and potential should be the most important criteria. High priced older players should have the shortest ropes compared to young and talented players. That is how it is in the professional sports all over the world. The concept of seniority seems to be a hangover of our bureaucratic system. Note that some of the earlier slumps of Tendulkar and Ganguly were when they were significantly younger. Right now, Dravid is at the age/stage when his rope should be very short.

I am not suggesting that Dravid should retire but he should prove his form in domestic cricket before being inserted in the national team. This would be a win-win situation in that we would have an in-form player playing (rather than the passenger that Dravid is now) and we also get to find out how some of our talented youngsters fare in the crucible of a test match.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by prasen9 »

I find logic in Puneets' point, and he has agreed the list would have been shorter, but, whatever period we look at certainly Ponting and Hussey have performed much better. Then, Tendulkar and Kallis could be grouped in the same boat with Dravid and Yusuf and Sangakarra are not much worse. I debated whether to put Jayaw in and maybe he and Sanga would deserve less long ropes. The length of most of these ropes would be about the same btw, even, though some are very marginally shorter than the others. Now, if you can tell me where I can order these ropes and who can mail them to these guys, I will get on with the real work :-)

I agree 100% with arjun's point. Anyway with Pak tour not being on, I hope Dravid is chosen (or not) for NZ based on his performance in the Duleep Trophy and the Ranji semis if Karnataka qualifies and is not an automatic selection.

p.s. Why does Dravid keep reminding me about Vishwanath at the fag end of his career besides that both of them are from Karnataka?


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by ssp »

India 179/1 at stumps on day 1. 18 overs lost due to bad light, but pretty slow going.
This test could be a draw simply because of the light deteriorating in the afternoon. I can't see 90 overs being completed.
Good inns from Gambhir and a return to some sort of form for Dravid. I'd like to see the batsmen up the scoring rate tomorrow and try and force a result.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by prasen9 »

Play starts at 8:30am tomorrow assuming better light conditions. They should play cautiously the first hour if indeed it starts that early because the ball will swing. Cautious does not mean they should not try to rotate the strikes, but, maybe cut out the lofted shots until the new ball is 10 overs old or so. But, realistically, I think India will play slowly for the next 40 overs or so and accelerate after reaching 300.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by PKBasu »

Good, solid batting by Gambhir and Dravid today, but the rest of the batting disappointed. Laxman might have been a tad unlucky (if the ball nudged his bat onto the pad; couldn't be sure), but he dug his own grave by remaining scoreless for 23 balls. Sachin got out to a fine ball from Swann, but he really shouldn't have been attempting to sweep a ball pitched well outside off stump. The middle order seems to lose its concentration in the first innings too often these days. Anyway, 453 is a pretty decent score and we should wrap up the series quite comfortably. The onus is now on the English batsmen to score quickly, and I doubt they can do that against our attack.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by Sathya »

India's run rate is comparatively slower than last few matches india played. Is it deliberate ? or the pitch is slow?


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by suresh »

Sathya,

It is cold in Mohali and conditions are favouring the bowlers. So batting hasn't been easy and Dravid and Gambhir had to really work for their runs. So, all in all, 453 is a good score to have on board and has more or less won the series for us as PKB mentioned in an earlier post. Bad light is expected to affect play every day and hence about 75 overs are expected to be lost due to bad light. So the match is going to be a draw unless the English decide to take an earlier flight out of India :-)

Suresh


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by puneets »

So finally..Dravid is back ! What a relief :)


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by Kumar »

Good performance by Gambir and Dravid... have to wait and see if Dravid is back in form..


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by ssp »

453 is a decent score-although we lost our way after Gambir's dismissal.
Scoring rate has been quite slow and with the light/weather likely to reduce the overs remaining, I think this one could end up as a draw. Hope I'm wrong and our bowlers can get 20 wickets.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by ssp »

90 mins lost at the start of play due to fog!
Zaheer takes a wicket off his 3rd ball! Eng 0-1.....great start. Conditions could be favourable for swing.
Sharma bowls Bell. 1-2. India making up for lost time in some style.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by PKBasu »

Very disappointing performance by the bowlers after an excellent start. Bhajji has been particularly ineffective, and appears to be having trouble spinning his basic offbreak. This test appears to be petering toward a draw with our bowlers unable to break this long Pietersen-Flintoff partnership.


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Re: England tour of India, Nov-Dec 2008

Post by PKBasu »

And the criticism works like a charm, as Bhajji strikes!
Actually, I thought Mishra had Flintoff plumb in front at least once quite early in his innings (with a googly that looked headed for the stumps). Anyway, he is still there...