Head coach of Indian cricket team

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Atithee
Member
Member
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by Atithee »

And now BCCI is saying that Kirsten never said he needs to consult the senior players before making a decision; rather, he had concerns about his family.

I thought this concern was attributed to Kirsten directly.  I don't know where else would these brazen lies, financial mismanagment, and high-handedness be tolerated.  Perhaps Pakistan.
sanjay8886
Member
Member
Posts: 716
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:15 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: Princeton Junction,NJ

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by sanjay8886 »

We can't help that although we all criticize office bearers of BCCI, for that matter IHF as well, they continue to prosper. Infact, Sharad Pawar is slated to become boss of ICC. Politics works and not merit, isn't it? Being agriculture minister does not pay in corruption as much as being BCCI chief does... :wink:
User avatar
jaydeep
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 23792
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:59 am
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: India

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by jaydeep »

Ok, now it's official, Gary Kirsten will be our next coach for 2 years from 1st, March 2008.

He will join Indian team in their tour of Australia from 2nd test onward as a 'Consultant'.
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36857
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by PKBasu »

Gavaskar was (actually, IS) my batting hero. But he was a politician all his life, and made some horrendous selection decisions in his time (that supporters like me squirmed to explain away, and usually gave up trying!). Remember names like Suru Nayak, Ghulam Parkar, Ravi Shastri (one that sort of worked, with a 3-wicket innings haul on debut -- but otherwise a perpetual 11th selection in the team through the rest of his mediocre career, apart from the World Series of Cricket in Victoria, 1985-86, under Gavaskar's captaincy).
The shenanigans and contortions he has pulled during the coach selection process are particularly noxious. Interestingly, Gavaskar was considered a Dalmiya loyalist who was initially being black-balled by the current establishment. But he has clearly wangled his way back into the core of the new BCCI establishment. Of course, Ravi Shastri had made the move even more deftly (and before Gavaskar). Master politicians, both!
User avatar
jaydeep
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 23792
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:59 am
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: India

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by jaydeep »

Gary Kirsten has been offered a whopping salary of $30K per month and will also be getting free accommodation during his two-year tenure.

His monthly salary figure is exactly 50% more than what Greg Chappell was getting per month from the BCCI.

Kirsten to get a fatter pay cheque!
User avatar
BSharma
Authors
Authors
Posts: 12076
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:51 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: USA

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by BSharma »

jayakris wrote: ...His (Kirsten) impressions of India that he wrote in that above-linked article is precisely what I would expect of any honest foreigner who visits India for the first time and hardly had much of a chance to explore the depth of India....
Jay
Jay,

I respect your opinion about Kirsten and I hope that the new coach’s outlook of India has changed in the past decade or so. 

You wrote in your post, “…After multiple readings of his article, I still do not find what drove all of you so mad.”

Let us say that a physician in India comes to Oklahoma as a Visiting Professor and spends a couple of months before going back to his institution and then gives an interview to an Indian newspaper about his trip to Oklahoma.  The entire press report that follows is about:

- Nearly 41% of Oklahoma babies born in 2006 were delivered to unmarried mothers ( Number of babies born to unwed mothers rises ) and up from about 39% in 2005.  The rest of America is not too good either, and about 37% of births are to unwed mothers.

- Four out of five high school students and about half of all middle school students attend drug infested schools, where they have personally witnessed illegal drug use, drug dealing, drug possession and students drunk and/or high on school grounds.  One in 10 teenagers admits to abusing painkillers such as Vicodin and OxyContin and more than 6 million Americans abuse prescription drugs, according to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

- Thirty-five percent of automobile-accident-related deaths (283 out of 805) in Oklahoma in 2005 were related to drunk-driving.

- A little less than half of students in 9th to 12th grades in USA report having engaged in sexual activity, and about 34% of teen-aged girls become pregnant at least once.  Approximately 4 million teens in America contract a sexually transmitted disease every year.

None of these statements are false, but they portray a very different image of Oklahoma or rest of America than what many people see.  One can see the good side of any place or can focus on the negative side – it is a choice we make when we speak about a place.  To convey a balanced picture to the readers about any place is better than a one-sided opinion.

None of the statements that Kirsten made about India were false; however, I wish he had also spoken about the good things that he encountered in India.  I am sure that he met some people during his trip that were outstanding hosts; some people who worked in the hotels who went out of their way to make his stay more pleasant; airlines in India that served him real food compared to junk that is thrown at passengers on American flights (even back in 1997); the car driver who perhaps drove him around without creating a fuss when Kirsten may have changed his plans at the last minute, and other people who tried to make his trip to India a more pleasant experience. 

Did Kirsten not have a single good experience in India that he could write about in his diary? 

One does not have to explore the depths of any country to experience the good things about it. 
jai_in_canada
Member
Member
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:05 pm

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by jai_in_canada »

I am less concerned about what Kirsten said about India, and more concerned about his hiring.  India has done well after Chappell's departure.  What is this guy going to do to at least not take India's performance down?  I get the distinct feeling that Chappell's departure dismantled the little inner circle cliques that formed around him. And with Dhoni & Kumble as captain and the well-known heavy weights not throwing their weight around, the other guys have shone.  Kirsten better be savvy enough to see all this and not tamper with it, while focusing on any areas of improvement.  Bottom line, I am big time concerned - but I would have been with any new coach.
User avatar
BSharma
Authors
Authors
Posts: 12076
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:51 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: USA

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by BSharma »

jai_in_canada wrote: I am less concerned about what Kirsten said about India, and more concerned about his hiring. 
There certainly are two issues - what Kirsten wrote about India and whether he is right coach for India (or if Indian team needs a coach).  I was responding to Jay's comment about what Kirsten had written about India.  :D
User avatar
kujo
Authors
Authors
Posts: 3040
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by kujo »

BSharma wrote:
- Nearly 41% of Oklahoma babies born in 2006 were delivered to unmarried mothers ( Number of babies born to unwed mothers rises ) and up from about 39% in 2005.  The rest of America is not too good either, and about 37% of births are to unwed mothers.

- Four out of five high school students and about half of all middle school students attend drug infested schools, where they have personally witnessed illegal drug use, drug dealing, drug possession and students drunk and/or high on school grounds.  One in 10 teenagers admits to abusing painkillers such as Vicodin and OxyContin and more than 6 million Americans abuse prescription drugs, according to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

- Thirty-five percent of automobile-accident-related deaths (283 out of 805) in Oklahoma in 2005 were related to drunk-driving.


None of these statements are false, but they portray a very different image of Oklahoma   or rest of America than what many people see. 
Ahh... now we know all the facts...

No wonder Jay never visited Oklahoma in all his travels!!  Doc, it is about time you got out of that hell-hole!  :devil: :)

cheers,
-kujo
puneets
Member
Member
Posts: 3823
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:57 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: US

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by puneets »

Those facts were eye opening. Thanks daac sahib.
User avatar
BSharma
Authors
Authors
Posts: 12076
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:51 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: USA

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by BSharma »

kujo wrote:
Ahh... now we know all the facts...

No wonder Jay never visited Oklahoma in all his travels!!  Doc, it is about time you got out of that hell-hole!  :devil: :)

cheers,
-kujo
I should have not used that line of argument in making my point  :damn:  :wink: and now Jay will never visit Oklahoma.  :(

Kujo, someone has to stay in Oklahoma to report the facts.  :kookoo:  By the way, Oklahoma is a pretty good place to live and raise a family.  At least we, the parents, know what we are up against!  :D
User avatar
jayakris
Moderators
Moderators
Posts: 34722
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am
Antispam: No
Please enter the middle number: 5
Location: Irvine, CA, USA
Has thanked: 9 times
Contact:

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by jayakris »

Man, Bhushan, talk about setting a trap for yourself!!  ...  I thought that would be the impression anybody would have about Oklahoma .. Heck, I have those impressions without ever visiting OK .. Are you saying we should criticize somebody who gives the proper impression about OK?  :) :) ... Kidding.

But really, in response to
BSharma wrote:Did Kirsten not have a single good experience in India that he could write about in his diary?  - One does not have to explore the depths of any country to experience the good things about it.
I can very well imagine a foreign cricketer feeling just that.   Not *one* good thing to say about India! ..  What would he know about India in a conducted cricket tour? ... The only way to get a good feeling is to have some time to meet normal people, visit some homes and see people's goodness, have a trip to some historical places (by yourself, with time to reflect) and see the greatness of our history, go to the right places of great scenery to get a sense of the vastness of the country, see how a democracy works with all the diversity/chaos, that people are free, and that a lot of people are actually happier than in most places in the world.    I don't thnk he got a chance to experience any of that.  But, if you look at all the superficial stuff a tour (typically mismanaged with missed flights and hotels which were not world standard then), a cricketer without serious intellectual curiosity, could feel that there isn't one good thing to say.

Really - what is the example of a good thing he could have said?  May be I am trying to make myself too shallow when I am imagining myself in a foreigner's shoes, but I cannot seem to come up with a good (honest) thing to say about 1997 India.   Right now, in 2007, I would perhaps say that "India is still a country with a lot of positive and capable people who seem to manage the world's backoffice from posh building set in te middle of all the chaos" -- that impression will hit everybody pretty easily now, but probably not in 1997.    Perhaps I would talk about world-standard nightlife/pubs in some of the big cities if one knows how to find the right places.   Even those weren't world-class in 1997 (and the women were more conservative!).  Perhaps he would not comment on the "dinged up" cars, because there area lot more world-stadard cars one would see now, than in 97.   I am trying to think like a shallow foreigner.

The rest of the problems in India in 1997 are all still there.  The cows are still there, the restaurants still do not look clean, the airports are the worst in any country of any significace (start with Mumbai airport), the so-called great new  highways and bridges are worse than of 1960 quality in most modern world.  There is still too much dust in the air and too little sign of enough water availabilty.  The so-called 5-star hotels still have toilets which clog, airconditioners that may be weak, and water that is not hot enough (with too much chlorine smell) ...

On the other hand, it does show that he, at least 10 years back as a 30 year old, did not have the ability to search out for some good things in India.  THAT is what I would hold against him.  He does appear to be not much deep in his analysis of the world.   Does that mean he is shallow in his cricket analysis too? - I don't know.    It does raise conerns on his ability to think/analyze and understand the Indian players he has to handle.   John Wright managed that fine, but Kirsten may not.

Jay
Last edited by jayakris on Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PKBasu
Member
Member
Posts: 36857
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:04 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: New Delhi / Kolkata
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by PKBasu »

:Offtopic:
Jay, you haven't been in India lately. The airport in Mumbai (especially the terminal used by Jet Airways) is totally first-rate (better than most US airports, eg, LAX!), and the international terminal has improved dramatically (almost world-class). It now has a fresh new carpet without any noxious smells (some sort of fancy de-odorizer at work too), a spankingly shiny new floor (that is mopped manually by a gentlemanly uniformed official using a modern mop) and signs all over saying that GVK is sorry for the inconvenience caused by the renovations. (I think it's MUCH better than the old airport already, except that one has to hike backwards after immigration to pick up baggage).
Our airports were among the worst in the world, certainly much worse than any of the major airports in the rest of Asia. So it's about time some improvements occurred.
Also, hotels in India are now quite spectacular. The ITC Sheraton Grand Maratha and the Sonar Bangla (in Bombay and Calcutta) are really fabulous, the newly renovated Taj (Mumbai) is spectacular (magnificent new rooms, with modern amenities, while preserving the unique charm of each room in the "old" wing). Of course, the hotel tariffs in India are utterly exorbitant: only London has comparable daily tariffs, which is quite outrageous. (I think of this as an interesting form of protection: the tariff barriers to trade have fallen dramatically, but the tariff barriers in hotels remain lofty...anyone who wants to do business in India will need to REALLY want to do so, by paying the exorbitant hotel tariffs in order to get in).

To get back to Kirsten, the main fear is what you express in your last sentence. Without Wright's feel for (and love of) India, will Kirsten ever be able to establish an empathy with the players and really help lift their collective performance?
User avatar
BSharma
Authors
Authors
Posts: 12076
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:51 pm
Please enter the middle number: 1
Location: USA

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by BSharma »

Jay,

Oklahoma is a fine place to raise a family despite its drawbacks.  As they say, a lotus flower grows in dirty water and although there are many negatives about Oklahoma, the rest of America, and India, there are many outstanding people and places, if one cares to notice them.

Jay, I am not sure why you believe that a conducted cricket tour by a bunch of adult well-traveled players would not afford them a chance to see even a single “good” thing in India?  Do they walk around with their eyes and ears closed?  Do they not meet ordinary people during the tour?  Many Indians in the 1990s, and it is true now also, are warm and friendly with foreigners, especially white people. 

When Jay was “trying to think like a shallow foreigner” and could not come up with something good to say about 1997 India, what it told me is that Kirsten was a “shallow foreigner” when he wrote in his diary and he is a lying despicable money-grabbing cheat who has no shame or ethics in 2007 when he told the reporters who confronted him about the contents of his diary that ‘‘I don't even remember saying those things.  I don't think I would have said.  I am excited about the job.” ( UNI report November 29, 2007 )

I would have a greater respect for Kirsten if he had replied to the reporters in 2007 that what he wrote in his diary were his opinions about India in 1997 because that is what he saw, but now his opinion about India are ... (and he spelled them out for the reporters and the cricket fans/officials).
jai_in_canada
Member
Member
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:05 pm

Re: Who do you want to coach Indian cricket team?

Post by jai_in_canada »

I wonder if Kirsten has every been to OK?!  If his cricket coaching skills are anything like his diplomacy / PR skills, it would be a bad hire for Indian cricket.
Post Reply