Sourav Ganguly - One of our Greatest Captains!

[shibi]

shibi, I wanted to put this thread to bed.

PKB, I second what Puneets said in his post (# 414).

With due respect to you, you never leave any opportunities to drive home your point. There are times when one should let go even if he/ she is right. We are not at war or in a court house where we need to defend every single word/ point of view. This is just a friendly discussion board (hopefully ).

[shibi]

Time to resurrect the thread. 

Greg Chappell speaks out (Cricinfo)

Right now I have nothing but praise for Ganguly

[kujo]

From rediff article http://us.rediff.com/wc2007/2007/mar/10pawar.htm

This (losing form) is part and parcel of the game. One year back, people were talking the same about Sourav Ganguly. All that has stopped after he performed so well and now he has become an asset to the team," Pawar told reporters.

You can't compare Sehwag's situation with Ganguly's. For one, Ganguly was surely out of the team and out of contention when he was dropped. I won't go into the politics of it. But, Ganguly knew and everyone in the team knew, that he won't be back with Team India unless things change drastically. It was hopeless for a while there.

While Sehwag knew all along, that he was out of the team only for a short while. He knew from his captain that he will be back in contention soon. In fact, if anything, his loss of form was handled with kid gloves throughout. He was not dropped from the team, he was simply asked to go back, rest and gain his form.

Also, the attitudes of these two players are very different. Ganguly wanted to prove that he belonged! He continues to re-iterate that attitude even in his recent interviews. He was and is a fighter.

Whereas, you should have seen the interview Sehwag gave in Delhi with his old coach nearby. His complacency was very visible. "I am not going to change anything". "I have talked to my coach and he advises me to be an attacking batsman as usual". "There is nothing wrong with my technique" etc.

Sehwag should warm the bench for a while and let other in-form players play. There is no dilemma here  (for Dravid). Just drop the guy, who is ridiculously out of form, lacks the fight (even on easy pitches)...

cheers,
-kujo

[PKBasu]

I disagree with Kujo about Sehwag. I think he should definitely go to Australia, even though he is not currently among the probables. I don't think there is a place for him in the Boxing Day test XI, but it will be invaluable having him in the squad.

But of course, the rock of Indian test batting this year has been Sourav Ganguly. Since his recall to the side at the start of this year, Ganguly has made 920 runs in 11 tests. If he gets out without adding to his overnight score tomorrow, he will still be averaging 51.1 this year. (Currently, on his not out score, he is averaging 54.1). Again, today, he came to India's rescue with a rearguard-action century when India were in dire straits. Just as he top-scored with a crucial 51* in his comeback match when India were in trouble -- eventually enabling the side to win that game -- and he made a crucial 57 in the Oval test having come in at 11/3. Every time he has walked to the crease in 2007, Ganguly has looked fluent from virtually the first ball. It hasn't stopped the likes of Tony Greig from suggesting he should "retire at the top", but Ganguly's bat has answered all the critics repeatedly all year. Long may he continue in this vein!!!

[kujo]

Hey....  Wait a second there PKB.

That post is 9 months old. In Indian cricket, as in life, things change over a 9 month period!!

Regardless, I still stick to my sentiments expressed there. Sehwag might be a passenger for upcoming Australia tour!?

Given the strong performance of Yuvi and Ganguly yesterday, I doubt whether he would even be a passenger...  Also, we obviously need more bowlers in the team, given the injury woes afflicting some of our frontline bowlers.

In an Indian team of 16 (less 2 wicket keepers - Dhoni, Kartick), 7 batsmen and 7 bowlers,  with Jaffer, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvi, Laxman certain to make the team.  It leaves two slots for: Dravid?, Sehwag?, Gambhir?, 1 new guy?

cheers
-kujo

[prasen9]

Assuming Gambhir continues his usual MO of caning the hapless and succumbing to anyone decent, if Akhtar comes back and bowls well, he may well rue the fact that he got a chance in this match.  Dravid, certainly is the other batsman.  The last should be an opener, it is Gambhir versus Chopra.  I say go with Chopra.  If Gambhir pleasantly surprises us (or at least those among us skeptical about his abilities) in I2, then the last position is his.

[PKBasu]

Ian Chappell thinks leaving Viru out is the first mistake India is making even before the tour to Australia gets underway:

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/extraco ... 24429.html

He says Viru is one batsman the Aussies fear.

[Kumar]

Ian Chappell thinks leaving Viru out is the first mistake India is making even before the tour to Australia gets underway:

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/extraco ... 24429.html

He says Viru is one batsman the Aussies fear.

I would love Sehwag of 2003 to be in the team. but we have to be realistic and look at Viru's current form. We can't expect him to be magically transformed to Viru of 2003 as soon as he lands in Australia. I would make a case for Manoj Tiwari to be included in the tour more than Sehwag.

[sanjay8886]

I am with Kumar. Play batsman who is in form no matter who he is. Sehwag does not make a cut here. Manoj T and Badri is possible substitute of Sehwag. But anyway, they won't get chance in playing 11 unless somebody gets injured. I want Yuvi in the playing 11 too and one of our fab 4 should do the opening along with Jaffar.

[puneets]

He says Viru is one batsman the Aussies fear.

Ian Chappell should not be taken seriously these days. Some of his comments have been ludicrous.

Aussies are afraid of Viru2003, not the present Viru. He should EARN his place in the team, and the only way to do that is to make runs in domestic cricket.

[PKBasu]

Puneet, sanjay8886, etc. by your logic Laxman shouldn't have been picked for this series -- because his domestic form was actually not too different from what Sehwag's has been. I thought Laxman should by no means be dropped -- as class is permanent, form temporary. The same logic emphatically applies to Sehwag.

Viru has a test batting average of 49.5 with 12 centuries, versus Laxman's 44.3 and 11 centuries. The same logic that applies to Laxman should apply to Viru -- especially in tests, where he is a proven success. Viru does not now deserve a place in the ODI squad, but there is no reason to extrapolate from that to his test place. If there is a natural replacement who is likely to succeed against Australia (or has proven he can do it against that team) then we should select that person. The closest contenders are Chopra and Gambhir. But in terms of sheer class, neither is a patch on Viru (although Gambhir is certainly his match - or even superior -- in ODIs).

I have been a long standing advocate of Manoj Tiwary and Badrinath (neither of whom, by the way, is among the probables for Australia -- outrageously!). But a tour to Australia is not the time to blood a debutant. When you go to Australia to challenge the champions, you take tried and tested players. Tiwary and Badri can be blooded in the following series against South Africa, but taking them to Australia wouldn't be fair to them (or to the benefit of the Indian team). Sadly, Viru isn't given the same sort of consideration that the Big Four of the middle order are routinely accorded these days (either by forum members, or by the selectors). In terms of record, there is no reason to make that distinction, especially when Viru has made the difficult adjustment to opening the batting for the benefit of the side all his career (when he is a natural middle-order batsman). 

[sanjay8886]

Actually Laxman was a borderline( based on domestic series) case before ind-pak series, not now( Man, he is just out once in the whole series). As opposed to Viru, Laxman was never out of test series. Laxman does not get chance in ODI( rightly so). His case is obviously diff than a player(Viru) who has been dropped and has been getting few chances in ODI to prove. He will remain a fringe player for now unless proven otherwise. No Viru does not make a cut for Aussie series. Both Chappel are crap, don't listen to them.

Aussie series would not have given Manoj T and Badri a debut but even while staying on sidelines, could have gained valuable experience. Could have chipped in, in case of injury to other frontline batsman. I think selectors should try them out instead of KKD. One wkt keeper has been sufficient for a series( dravid is still there in case of emergency). We all know who is number 1 wkt keeper at this time.

[puneets]

PKB - When Viru was dropped from the test team, I did not agree with that decision. On the other hand, he should have had been dropped from the ODI team long time back (1-1.5 yrs). The problem at hand is that Viru hasn't scored anything considerable since being dropped from both the teams. He has failed a number of times and that does not make his case any stronger. 

As sanjay has already pointed out, your VVSL argument holds no water because VVSL was never formally dropped from the test team.

[prasen9]

Dropping Sehwag from the test team was a mistake.  However, the selectors need an innings from Viru to save their face.  He should have been dropped from the ODI team a long time ago.  They kept giving him chances in ODIs and not in Tests, go figure.  He pretty much failed in all of them.  Anyway, now it seems one we will really play with one opener and 5 MO bats, so taking him makes no sense.  He should get his form back.  If there is an injury and he has got his form back, he should be sent in.

[PKBasu]

Nice mea culpa by one of Ganguly's most persistent critics, Sambit Bal of Cricinfo:

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/indvpak ... 24588.html

He only strikes one false note regarding Ganguly's comeback: "..few rational observers would have seen it coming". I don't like being labelled irrational...

Some other choice quotes that hit the mark:
"Remarkably, in a batting line-up featuring Sachin Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid, Ganguly has been India's best batsman since his return."
and...
"Australia will come hard at him, and the pitches will test his skills. But he is living out a fairytale at the moment, and nothing he achieves will be a surprise anymore. There are many, me included, who believed Ganguly's time as an international cricketer was over. We owe him an apology and a salute."

As a Ganguly fan, what has always struck me about Sourav is his innate self-assurance and steely determination. Even in the worst of times, he has always believed in his own abilities, and has invariably come good when under the most extreme personal pressure. The one thing I was surprised about in his monumental innings of 239 was his stamina and fitness -- which, I must say, I didn't think he possessed. There was a great deal of movement in the air and off the pitch in the morning session yesterday as well, and he negotiated it better than any of the other 5 Indian batsmen who had batted in the morning session on either day: not at all elegantly (he even got hit behind the helmet once), but with sheer doggedness. That is a trait he has obviously learnt from Dravid. If you can last out the torrid periods, things will invariably get easier and you can reap the rewards of being at the crease -- when your natural elegance can be allowed to flower in all its fullness.